September 9th Beta Liquidity Mining Distribution; Proposed ...

The project loses its voice and how Forbes stands out

The project loses its voice and how Forbes stands out

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With the success of bitcoin, the currency circle has officially entered the "bull market cycle", but many friends are complaining that it is more and more difficult to earn money in the currency circle. Indeed, today's futures have been reduced to leek harvesters, and Shanzhai coins are half dead under the hard support of the project side, while the big model coins of the great fire of 19 years have disappeared. Many people will ask why the 17-year ICO, 18-year IEO and 19-year model currency will not be seen until 2020 without strong policy intervention. It's not hard to understand. The reasons are as follows:
1., after 17 years of super bull market, the past 3 years are in the bubble stage.
After being cheated countless times, leek is more cautious about new projects. The era when a white paper and an official website can circle money is gone forever.
2. The blockchain project is difficult to land and has no physical support.
In the currency circle, no matter what projects boast heaven, unlike industry, there is no sustained hematopoietic capacity, and ultimately only to end up with zero.
3. All model coins are Ponzi schemes.
Not to mention model currencies, all models are pyramid pyramid schemes, which reward the first arrivals with the money of the latecomers. The bigger the bubble, the collapse is only a matter of time.
Is it true that the currency circle is so dead that there is no hope? If you really want to start a new craze in the currency circle, the top 3 problems must be overcome. That is to say, if there is a project that can control risks without bubbles, there is physical support, without pyramid schemes, it will be a long and steady way to make money.
Before that, there must be some people who say it's a dream. After the epidemic, the state vigorously supports the enterprises to revive the economy. However, in reality, it's very difficult for entities to do it, let alone blockchain projects. As a result, I noticed a project called Forbes. After studying the white paper, I suddenly felt that like discovering a new continent, unlike any project I have ever seen, this project has perfectly realized the above vision! Let's explore it with curiosity and see what kind of immortal project it is.

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1、 0 raise funds, start the fund only by regular mining business
First of all, Forbes project is 0 fund-raising. Note that there is no fund-raising at the beginning, which eliminates the possibility of encircling money. Before the introduction of Forbes project token GFS, only bitcoin mining business was started. This bitcoin mining seems to be impossible. What does this have to do with the project itself? Let's explain later. First of all, mining business. Forbes first launched the "miner Alliance Plan". If you want to participate in it, you only need to pledge the deposit to purchase computing power or mining machines, and you can continue to get mining profits. Note why the project risk is controllable. The key points are:
  1. The deposit is returned daily for a period of one year through the smart contract.
The smart contract is deployed on Ethereum. The deposit usdt is returned every day. The smart contract is open-source, which ensures that the principal can be recovered 100% regardless of the outcome of the project.
  1. Mining income can be withdrawn every day.
The income from bitcoin mining will also be automatically converted into stable currency, which can be withdrawn every day, so as to realize the stable earning.
  1. Solid bitcoin ore pool support, which can be inspected on site.
The reason why the project is supported by entities is that 100% of the deposit mortgaged by users is used to purchase bitcoin mining machines. Forbes cooperates with bitcoin China, the global head mining pool, which can be visited at any time.
In this way, in the early stage of Forbes project, users can participate in bitcoin mining through 100% deposit return, and earn mining profits with little risk. If it's just mining, Forbes can't make a big impact on the currency circle. After all, there are two problems. One is that the cycle is too long; the other is that there is no promotion model. Although the model coins of the 19-year fire are all the end of collapse, the reason for the fire is that there are models to see how Forbes breaks.

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2、 Static and dynamic dual mode, the fuse is on fire
As mentioned above, the return cycle of buying deposit for mining machine is as long as one year, which may deter many people. Forbes has designed two modes. If you don't do anything after buying the miner, you can only make money slowly through the deposit released every day and the income generated. At present, the annual income is about 180%, which is called static mode. If you want to make money quickly, Forbes has designed a dynamic model.
In dynamic mode, there are three modules.
  1. Promotion in wet season.
In the mining circle, if there is a high water period, the benefits of mining will increase, so Forbes will often launch this activity in the high water period. 10% of the deposit of the first single miner directly pushed by the users to the top 5 will be released immediately. For example, if I bought a 1000u miner, the deposit of 1000u would have been released in one year, but if I recommend five more people to buy the miner, and all the five people buy the 1000u miner, then 10% of the total amount of deposit, that is, 500U, can be released immediately. In this way, I can promote up to 5 people and get back half of the original immediately.
In addition, it should be noted that the funds released here are the sum of deposit and income, not only the deposit!
  1. Direct promotion increased release by 20%, indirect promotion increased release by 10%.
It's easy to understand. Let's take my purchase of 1000u mining machine as an example. When it is not promoted, the deposit plus mining revenue will release 7U in total every day. If one person is directly pushed, and this person purchases 1000u mining machine, I will increase the release money by 20%, i.e. 1.4u. If the person who is directly pushed also buys 1000u mining machine, it is indirect promotion. I can increase the release money by 10%, i.e. 0.7u, My daily release gold is 7U + 1.4u + 0.7u = 9.1u. The more you push, the faster you release, that's the mechanism.
  1. Labor Union level release.
The so-called labor union refers to other performance areas beyond the maximum performance line under umbrella, because I am the recommender of all people under umbrella, so I am the president. In order to encourage users to join the trade union, the presidents of different levels of trade unions can get different levels of release rewards. For example, if I only need 50000 U of direct and indirect funds to become a V1 Union, then 12% of the total income of bitcoin dug out by the whole network will be equally distributed to the presidents of all V1 unions for release, and so on.
In Forbes' promotion model, all these promotion rewards are only the release of your principal and income, not the money from your family. This is different from other MLM project core elements!
In other words, it would take a year to release the principal and mining income without doing anything at all, but if I promote, it can greatly increase the speed of capital recovery and income generation. When the promotion reward reaches the sum of the deposit and income that should have been obtained, the promotion reward is no longer effective.
Some may say that I have worked so hard to build such a large community. It is not worth it just for the principal and about 180% of the annual mining income. In fact, when the deposit and income are released completely, you can choose to re invest again, so that the promotion reward can be released all the time.
Someone will ask again, the income of bitcoin mining is uncertain every day, why is the release associated with the expected future income? Forbes expects mining bitcoin's annual revenue to reach 180%, far higher than other mining pools. Where does the capital come from?
It is very important to explain this problem, because Forbes is a pure entity, no bubble project, and there can be no Ponzi scheme.
  1. As the project has its own promotion mode, once it is started, the ore pool will grow rapidly by fission, so the huge size of the ore pool will have a lot of base gas and ask for the price of the power plant. Generally, the cost of pool electricity may be more than 0.35, while Forbes can save a lot of electricity cost.
  2. With the support of the world's top mining pools, the more mining machines are purchased, the less the marginal cost, so the cost of mining machines is actually lower than the average cost of all users, and this cost difference is also one of the benefits.
  3. Forbes has set up a "mining pool fund", which uses 20% of the income from the mining output of the whole network to enter the fund pool. This fund is dedicated to the purpose of continuous purchase of mining machines to expand the income. Therefore, the project has the capacity of continuous hematopoiesis.

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3、 Forbes takes the overall situation and the final project vision is to realize distributed finance.
have ulterior motives. It would be a mistake to think that Forbes is just a new exploration of the mining model. What the project really wants to achieve is the landing of cross chain technology and the first echelon of distributed finance.
"Forbes miner alliance" is only the first step. With the launch of the main network, many node ecology gathered through mining will suddenly have a place to play, which to play, invincible. As we all know, the most popular concept of blockchain is difi (distributed Finance), which is also the field that Ethereum 2.0 will further explore in the future. What Forbes really wants to build in the future is to win the crown of decentralized finance and become the "UnionPay" of the currency circle.
Then when the Forbes ore pool is mature, Forbes will launch the main network and token GFS, and the output of GFS can only be obtained by purchasing a special miner. Because participating in the early bitcoin mining is also equivalent to contributing to the node ecology, users can choose to convert the mining revenue into GFS vouchers during the miner alliance period, and after the main network line, they can map to the main network token one by one. If we are optimistic about the future of GFS, it is a good choice to exchange mining income into GFS voucher in advance.
Of course, it is still the saying that the Forbes project is real, real landing, zero risk, no bubble. Unlike other deceptive projects, which will forcibly exchange the proceeds into the project token, the users can freely choose to exchange the mining proceeds for GFS, and they can also freely choose to purchase GFS mining machines in the future. It doesn't matter if you don't look forward to Forbes project. It's good to make bitcoin mining money in a safe and stable way. After all, everyone's cognition is different and their risk tolerance is different.
For me, such a solid project is hard to see in the currency circle. Forbes is not only real, but also does not adhere to the traditional entity mining, and the innovative introduction of no foam promotion mode. It can be predicted that this mode is sustainable development, and even I look forward to challenging the top mines of bitcoin. The earlier I participate in the project, the more meat I can eat. This is the essence of my participation in many projects. My mining income has been converted into GFS certificate almost the first time. After all, Forbes project has just started, facing a vast ocean to be developed.
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An extensive guide for cashing out bitcoin and cryptocurrencies into private banks

Hey guys.
Merry Xmas !
I am coming back to you with a follow up post, as I have helped many people cash out this year and I have streamlined the process. After my original post, I received many requests to be more specific and provide more details. I thought that after the amazing rally we have been attending over the last few months, and the volatility of the last few days, it would be interesting to revisit more extensively.
The attitude of banks around crypto is changing slowly, but it is still a tough stance. For the first partial cash out I operated around a year ago for a client, it took me months to find a bank. They wouldn’t want to even consider the case and we had to knock at each and every door. Despite all my contacts it was very difficult back in the days. This has changed now, and banks have started to open their doors, but there is a process, a set of best practices and codes one has to follow.
I often get requests from crypto guys who are very privacy-oriented, and it takes me months to have them understand that I am bound by Swiss law on banking secrecy, and I am their ally in this onboarding process. It’s funny how I have to convince people that banks are legit, while on the other side, banks ask me to show that crypto millionaires are legit. I have a solid background in both banking and in crypto so I manage to make the bridge, but yeah sometimes it is tough to reconcile the two worlds. I am a crypto enthusiast myself and I can say that after years of work in the banking industry I have grown disillusioned towards banks as well, like many of you. Still an account in a Private bank is convenient and powerful. So let’s get started.
There are two different aspects to your onboarding in a Swiss Private bank, compliance-wise.
*The origin of your crypto wealth
*Your background (residence, citizenship and probity)
These two aspects must be documented in-depth.
How to document your crypto wealth. Each new crypto millionaire has a different story. I may detail a few fun stories later in this post, but at the end of the day, most of crypto rich I have met can be categorized within the following profiles: the miner, the early adopter, the trader, the corporate entity, the black market, the libertarian/OTC buyer. The real question is how you prove your wealth is legit.
1. Context around the original amount/investment Generally speaking, your first crypto purchase may not be documented. But the context around this acquisition can be. I have had many cases where the original amount was bought through Mtgox, and no proof of purchase could be provided, nor could be documented any Mtgox claim. That’s perfectly fine. At some point Mtgox amounted 70% of the bitcoin transactions globally, and people who bought there and managed to withdraw and keep hold of their bitcoins do not have any Mtgox claim. This is absolutely fine. However, if you can show me the record of a wire from your bank to Tisbane (Mtgox's parent company) it's a great way to start.
Otherwise, what I am trying to document here is the following: I need context. If you made your first purchase by saving from summer jobs, show me a payroll. Even if it was USD 2k. If you acquired your first bitcoins from mining, show me the bills of your mining equipment from 2012 or if it was through a pool mine, give me your slushpool account ref for instance. If you were given bitcoin against a service you charged, show me an invoice.
2. Tracking your wealth until today and making sense of it. What I have been doing over the last few months was basically educating compliance officers. Thanks God, the blockchain is a global digital ledger! I have been telling my auditors and compliance officers they have the best tool at their disposal to lead a proper investigation. Whether you like it or not, your wealth can be tracked, from address to address. You may have thought all along this was a bad feature, but I am telling you, if you want to cash out, in the context of Private Banking onboarding, tracking your wealth through the block explorer is a boon. We can see the inflows, outflows. We can see the age behind an address. An early adopter who bought 1000 BTC in 2010, and let his bitcoin behind one address and held thus far is legit, whether or not he has a proof of purchase to show. That’s just common sense. My job is to explain that to the banks in a language they understand.
Let’s have a look at a few examples and how to document the few profiles I mentioned earlier.
The trader. I love traders. These are easy cases. I have a ton of respect for them. Being a trader myself in investment banks for a decade earlier in my career has taught me that controlling one’s emotions and having the discipline to impose oneself some proper risk management system is really really hard. Further, being able to avoid the exchange bankruptcy and hacks throughout crypto history is outstanding. It shows real survival instinct, or just plain blissed ignorance. In any cases traders at exchange are easy cases to corroborate since their whole track record is potentially available. Some traders I have met have automated their trading and have shown me more than 500k trades done over the span of 4 years. Obviously in this kind of scenario I don’t show everything to the bank to avoid information overload, and prefer to do some snacking here and there. My strategy is to show the early trades, the most profitable ones, explain the trading strategy and (partially expose) the situation as of now with id pages of the exchanges and current balance. Many traders have become insensitive to the risk of parking their crypto at exchange as they want to be able to trade or to grasp an occasion any minute, so they generally do not secure a substantial portion on the blockchain which tends to make me very nervous.
The early adopter. Provided that he has not mixed his coin, the early adopter or “hodler” is not a difficult case either. Who cares how you bought your first 10k btc if you bought them below 3$ ? Even if you do not have a purchase proof, I would generally manage to find ways. We just have to corroborate the original 30’000 USD investment in this case. I mainly focus on three things here:
*proof of early adoption I have managed to educate some banks on a few evidences specifically related to crypto markets. For instance with me, an old bitcointalk account can serve as a proof of early adoption. Even an old reddit post from a few years ago where you say how much you despise this Ripple premined scam can prove to be a treasure readily available to show you were early.
*story telling Compliance officers like to know when, why and how. They are human being looking for simple answers to simple questions and they don’t want like to be played fool. Telling the truth, even without a proof can do wonders, and even though bluffing might still work because banks don’t fully understand bitcoin yet, it is a risky strategy that is less and less likely to pay off as they are getting more sophisticated by the day.
*micro transaction from an old address you control This is the killer feature. Send a $20 worth transaction from an old address to my company wallet and to one of my partner bank’s wallet and you are all set ! This is gold and considered a very solid piece of evidence. You can also do a microtransaction to your own wallet, but banks generally prefer transfer to their own wallet. Patience with them please. they are still learning.
*signature message Why do a micro transaction when you can sign a message and avoid potentially tainting your coins ?
*ICO millionaire Some clients made their wealth participating in ETH crowdsale or IOTA ICO. They were very easy to deal with obviously and the account opening was very smooth since we could evidence the GENESIS TxHash flow.
The miner Not so easy to proof the wealth is legit in that case. Most early miners never took screenshot of the blocks on bitcoin core, nor did they note down the block number of each block they mined. Until the the Slashdot article from August 2010 anyone could mine on his laptop, let his computer run overnight and wake up to a freshly minted block containing 50 bitcoins back in the days. Not many people were structured enough to store and secure these coins, avoid malwares while syncing the blockchain continuously, let alone document the mined blocks in the process. What was 50 BTC worth really for the early miners ? dust of dollars, games and magic cards… Even miners post 2010 are generally difficult to deal with in terms of compliance onboarding. Many pool mining are long dead. Deepbit is down for instance and the founders are MIA. So my strategy to proof mining activity is as follow:
*Focusing on IT background whenever possible. An IT background does help a lot to bring some substance to the fact you had the technical ability to operate a mining rig.
*Showing mining equipment receipts. If you mined on your own you must have bought the hardware to do so. For instance mining equipment receipts from butterfly lab from 2012-2013 could help document your case. Similarly, high electricity bill from your household on a consistent basis back in the day could help. I have already unlocked a tricky case in the past with such documents when the bank was doubtful.
*Wallet.dat files with block mining transactions from 2011 thereafter This obviously is a fantastic piece of evidence for both you and me if you have an old wallet and if you control an address that received original mined blocks, (even if the wallet is now empty). I will make sure compliance officers understand what it means, and as for the early adopter, you can prove your control over these wallet through a microtransaction. With these kind of addresses, I can show on the block explorer the mined block rewards hitting at regular time interval, and I can even spot when difficulty level increased or when halvening process happened.
*Poolmining account. Here again I have educated my partner bank to understand that a slush account opened in 2013 or an OnionTip presence was enough to corroborate mining activity. The block explorer then helps me to do the bridge with your current wallet.
*Describing your set up and putting it in context In the history of mining we had CPU, GPU, FPG and ASICs mining. I will describe your technical set up and explain why and how your set up was competitive at that time.
The corporate entity Remember 2012 when we were all convinced bitcoin would take over the world, and soon everyone would pay his coffee in bitcoin? How naïve we were to think transaction fees would remain low forever. I don’t blame bitcoin cash supporters; I once shared this dream as well. Remember when we thought global adoption was right around the corner and some brick and mortar would soon accept bitcoin transaction as a common mean of payment? Well, some shop actually did accept payment and held. I had a few cases as such of shops holders, who made it to the multi million mark holding and had invoices or receipts to proof the transactions. If you are organized enough to keep a record for these trades and are willing to cooperate for the documentation, you are making your life easy. The digital advertising business is also a big market for the bitcoin industry, and affiliates partner compensated in btc are common. It is good to show an invoice, it is better to show a contract. If you do not have a contract (which is common since all advertising deals are about ticking a check box on the website to accept terms and conditions), there are ways around that. If you are in that case, pm me.
The black market Sorry guys, I can’t do much for you officially. Not that I am judging you. I am a libertarian myself. It’s just already very difficult to onboard legit btc adopters, so the black market is a market I cannot afford to consider. My company is regulated so KYC and compliance are key for me if I want to stay in business. Behind each case I push forward I am risking the credibility and reputation I have built over the years. So I am sorry guys I am not risking it to make an extra buck. Your best hope is that crypto will eventually take over the world and you won’t need to cash out anyway. Or go find a Lithuanian bank that is light on compliance and cooperative.
The OTC buyer and the libertarian. Generally a very difficult case. If you bought your stack during your journey in Japan 5 years ago to a guy you never met again; or if you accumulated on https://localbitcoins.com/ and kept no record or lost your account, it is going to be difficult. Not impossible but difficult. We will try to build a case with everything else we have, and I may be able to onboard you. However I am risking a lot here so I need to be 100% confident you are legit, before I defend you. Come & see me in Geneva, and we will talk. I will run forensic services like elliptic, chainalysis, or scorechain on an extract of your wallet. If this scan does not raise too many red flags, then maybe we can work together ! If you mixed your coins all along your crypto history, and shredded your seeds because you were paranoid, or if you made your wealth mining professionally monero over the last 3 years but never opened an account at an exchange. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ I am not a magician and don’t get me wrong, I love monero, it’s not the point.
Cashing out ICOs Private companies or foundations who have ran an ICO generally have a very hard time opening a bank account. The few banks that accept such projects would generally look at 4 criteria:
*Seriousness of the project Extensive study of the whitepaper to limit the reputation risk
*AML of the onboarding process ICOs 1.0 have no chance basically if a background check of the investors has not been conducted
*Structure of the moral entity List of signatories, certificate of incumbency, work contract, premises...
*Fiscal conformity Did the company informed the authorities and seek a fiscal ruling.
For the record, I am not into the tax avoidance business, so people come to me with a set up and I see if I can make it work within the legal framework imposed to me.
First, stop thinking Switzerland is a “offshore heaven” Swiss banks have made deals with many governments for the exchange of fiscal information. If you are a French citizen, resident in France and want to open an account in a Private Bank in Switzerland to cash out your bitcoins, you will get slaughtered (>60%). There are ways around that, and I could refer you to good tax specialists for fiscal optimization, but I cannot organize it myself. It would be illegal for me. Swiss private banks makes it easy for you to keep a good your relation with your retail bank and continue paying your bills without headaches. They are integrated to SEPA, provide ebanking and credit cards.
For information, these are the kind of set up some of my clients came up with. It’s all legal; obviously I do not onboard clients that are not tax compliant. Further disclaimer: I did not contribute myself to these set up. Do not ask me to organize it for you. I won’t.
EU tricks
Swiss lump sum taxation Foreign nationals resident in Switzerland can be taxed on a lump-sum basis if they are not gainfully employed in our country. Under the lump-sum tax regime, foreign nationals taking residence in Switzerland may choose to pay an expense-based tax instead of ordinary income and wealth tax. Attractive cantons for the lump sum taxation are Zug, Vaud, Valais, Grisons, Lucerne and Berne. To make it short, you will be paying somewhere between 200 and 400k a year and all expenses will be deductible.
Switzerland has adopted a very friendly attitude towards crypto currency in general. There is a whole crypto valley in Zug now. 30% of ICOs are operated in Switzerland. The reason is that Switzerland has thrived for centuries on banking secrecy, and today with FATCA and exchange of fiscal info with EU, banking secrecy is dead. Regulators in Switzerland have understood that digital ledger technologies were a way to roll over this competitive advantage for the generations to come. Switzerland does not tax capital gains on crypto profits. The Finma has a very pragmatic approach. They have issued guidance- updated guidelines here. They let the business get organized and operate their analysis on a case per case basis. Only after getting a deep understanding of the market will they issue a global fintech license in 2019. This approach is much more realistic than legislations which try to regulate everything beforehand.
Italy new tax exemption. It’s a brand new fiscal exemption. Go to Aoste, get residency and you could be taxed a 100k/year for 10years. Yes, really.
Portugal What’s crazy in Europe is the lack of fiscal harmonization. Even if no one in Brussels dares admit it, every other country is doing fiscal dumping. Portugal is such a country and has proved very friendly fiscally speaking. I personally have a hard time trusting Europe. I have witnessed what happened in Greece over the last few years. Some of our ultra high net worth clients got stuck with capital controls. I mean no way you got out of crypto to have your funds confiscated at the next financial crisis! Anyway. FYI
Malta Generally speaking, if you get a residence somewhere you have to live there for a certain period of time. Being stuck in Italy is no big deal with Schengen Agreement, but in Malta it is a different story. In Malta, the ordinary residence scheme is more attractive than the HNWI residence scheme. Being an individual, you can hold a residence permit under this scheme and pay zero income tax in Malta in a completely legal way.
Monaco Not suitable for French citizens, but for other Ultra High Net worth individual, Monaco is worth considering. You need an account at a local bank as a proof of fortune, and this account generally has to be seeded with at least EUR500k. You also need a proof of residence. I do mean UHNI because if you don’t cash out minimum 30m it’s not interesting. Everything is expensive in Monaco. Real Estate is EUR 50k per square meter. A breakfast at Monte Carlo Bay hotel is 70 EUR. Monaco is sunny but sometimes it feels like a golden jail. Do you really want that for your kids?
Dubaï
  1. Set up a company in Dubaï, get your resident card.
  2. Spend one day every 6 month there
  3. ???
  4. Be tax free
US tricks Some Private banks in Geneva do have the license to manage the assets of US persons and U.S citizens. However, do not think it is a way to avoid paying taxes in the US. Opening an account at an authorized Swiss Private banks is literally the same tax-wise as opening an account at Fidelity or at Bank of America in the US. The only difference is that you will avoid all the horror stories. Horror stories are all real by the way. In Switzerland, if you build a decent case and answer all the questions and corroborate your case in depth, you will manage to convince compliance officers beforehand. When the money eventually hits your account, it is actually available and not frozen.
The IRS and FATCA require to file FBAR if an offshore account is open. However FBAR is a reporting requirement and does not have taxes related to holding an account outside the US. The taxes would be the same if the account was in the US. However penalties for non compliance with FBAR are very large. The tax liability management is actually performed through the management of the assets ( for exemple by maximizing long term capital gains and minimizing short term gains).
The case for Porto Rico. Full disclaimer here. I am not encouraging this. Have not collaborated on such tax avoidance schemes. if you are interested I strongly encourage you to seek a tax advisor and get a legal opinion. I am not responsible for anything written below. I am not going to say much because I am so afraid of uncle Sam that I prefer to humbly pass the hot potato to pwc From here all it takes is a good advisor and some creativity to be tax free on your crypto wealth if you are a US person apparently. Please, please please don’t ask me more. And read the disclaimer again.
Trust tricks Generally speaking I do not accept fringe fiscal situation because it puts me in a difficult situation to the banks I work with, and it is already difficult enough to defend a legit crypto case. Trust might be a way to optimize your fiscal situation. Belize. Bahamas. Seychelles. Panama, You name it. At the end of the day, what matters for Swiss Banks are the beneficial owner and the settlor. Get a legal opinion, get it done, and when you eventually knock at a private bank’s door, don’t say it was for fiscal avoidance you stupid ! You will get the door smashed upon you. Be smarter. It will work. My advice is just to have it done by a great tax specialist lawyer, even if it costs you some money, as the entity itself needs to be structured in a professional way. Remember that with trust you are dispossessing yourself off your wealth. Not something to be taken lightly.
“Anonymous” cash out. Right. I think I am not going into this topic, neither expose the ways to get it done. Pm me for details. I already feel a bit uncomfortable with all the info I have provided. I am just going to mention many people fear that crypto exchange might become reporting entities soon, and rightly so. This might happen anyday. You have been warned. FYI, this only works for non-US and large cash out.
The difference between traders an investors. Danmark, Holland and Germany all make a huge difference if you are a passive investor or if you are a trader. ICO is considered investing for instance and is not taxed, while trading might be considered as income and charged aggressively. I would try my best to protect you and put a focus on your investor profile whenever possible, so you don't have to pay 52% tax if you do not have to :D
Full cash out or partial cash out? People who have been sitting on crypto for long have grown an emotional and irrational link with their coins. They come to me and say, look, I have 50m in crypto but I would like to cash out 500k only. So first let me tell you that as a wealth manager my advice to you is to take some off the table. Doing a partial cash out is absolutely fine. The market is bullish. We are witnessing a redistribution of wealth at a global scale. Bitcoin is the real #occupywallstreet, and every one will discuss crypto at Xmas eve which will make the market even more supportive beginning 2018, especially with all hedge funds entering the scene. If you want to stay exposed to bitcoin and altcoins, and believe these techs will change the world, it’s just natural you want to keep some coins. In the meantime, if you have lived off pizzas over the last years, and have the means to now buy yourself an nice house and have an account at a private bank, then f***ing do it mate ! Buy physical gold with this account, buy real estate, have some cash at hands. Even though US dollar is worthless to your eyes, it’s good and convenient to have some. Also remember your wife deserves it ! And if you have no wife yet and you are socially awkward like the rest of us, then maybe cashing out partially will help your situation ;)
What the Private Banks expect. Joke aside, it is important you understand something. If you come around in Zurich to open a bank account and partially cash out, just don’t expect Private Banks will make an exception for you if you are small. You can’t ask them to facilitate your cash out, buy a 1m apartment with the proceeds of the sale, and not leave anything on your current account. It won’t work. Sadly, under 5m you are considered small in private banking. The bank is ok to let you open an account, provided that your kyc and compliance file are validated, but they will also want you to become a client and leave some money there to invest. This might me despicable, but I am just explaining you their rules. If you want to cash out, you should sell enough to be comfortable and have some left. Also expect the account opening to last at least 3-4 week if everything goes well. You can't just open an account overnight.
The cash out logistics. Cashing out 1m USD a day in bitcoin or more is not so hard.
Let me just tell you this: Even if you get a Tier 4 account with Kraken and ask Alejandro there to raise your limit over $100k per day, Even if you have a bitfinex account and you are willing to expose your wealth there, Even if you have managed to pass all the crazy due diligence at Bitstamp,
The amount should be fractioned to avoid risking your full wealth on exchange and getting slaughtered on the price by trading big quantities. Cashing out involves significant risks at all time. There is a security risk of compromising your keys, a counterparty risk, a fat finger risk. Let it be done by professionals. It is worth every single penny.
Most importantly, there is a major difference between trading on an exchange and trading OTC. Even though it’s not publicly disclosed some exchange like Kraken do have OTC desks. Trading on an exchange for a large amount will weight on the prices. Bitcoin is a thin market. In my opinion over 30% of the coins are lost in translation forever. Selling $10m on an exchange in a day can weight on the prices more than you’d think. And if you trade on a exchange, everything is shown on record, and you might wipe out the prices because on exchanges like bitstamp or kraken ultimately your counterparties are retail investors and the market depth is not huge. It is a bit better on Bitfinex. It is way better to trade OTC. Accessing the institutional OTC market is not easy, and that is also the reason why you should ask a regulated financial intermediary if we are talking about huge amounts.
Last point, always chose EUR as opposed to USD. EU correspondent banks won’t generally block institutional amounts. However we had the cases of USD funds frozen or delayed by weeks.
Most well-known OTC desks are Cumberlandmining (ask for Lucas), Genesis (ask for Martin), Bitcoin Suisse AG (ask for Niklas), circletrade, B2C2, or Altcoinomy (ask for Olivier)
Very very large whales can also set up escrow accounts for massive block trades. This world, where blocks over 30k BTC are exchanged between 2 parties would deserve a reddit thread of its own. Crazyness all around.
Your options: DIY or going through a regulated financial intermediary.
Execution trading is a job in itself. You have to be patient, be careful not to wipe out the order book and place limit orders, monitor the market intraday for spikes or opportunities. At big levels, for a large cash out that may take weeks, these kind of details will save you hundred thousands of dollars. I understand crypto holders are suspicious and may prefer to do it by themselves, but there are regulated entities who now offer the services. Besides, being a crypto millionaire is not a guarantee you will get institutional daily withdrawal limits at exchange. You might, but it will take you another round of KYC with them, and surprisingly this round might be even more aggressive that the ones at Private banks since exchange have gone under intense scrutiny by regulators lately.
The fees for cashing out through a regulated financial intermediary to help you with your cash out should be around 1-2% flat on the nominal, not more. And for this price you should get the full package: execution/monitoring of the trades AND onboarding in a private bank. If you are asked more, you are being abused.
Of course, you also have the option to do it yourself. It is a way more tedious and risky process. Compliance with the exchange, compliance with the private bank, trading BTC/fiat, monitoring the transfers…You will save some money but it will take you some time and stress. Further, if you approach a private bank directly, it will trigger a series of red flag to the banks. As I said in my previous post, they call a direct approach a “walk-in”. They will be more suspicious than if you were introduced by someone and won’t hesitate to show you high fees and load your portfolio with in-house products that earn more money to the banks than to you. Remember also most banks still do not understand crypto so you will have a lot of explanations to provide and you will have to start form scratch with them!
The paradox of crypto millionaires Most of my clients who made their wealth through crypto all took massive amount of risks to end up where they are. However, most of them want their bank account to be managed with a low volatility fixed income capital preservation risk profile. This is a paradox I have a hard time to explain and I think it is mainly due to the fact that most are distrustful towards banks and financial markets in general. Many clients who have sold their crypto also have a cash-out blues in the first few months. This is a classic situation. The emotions involved in hodling for so long, the relief that everything has eventually gone well, the life-changing dynamics, the difficulties to find a new motivation in life…All these elements may trigger a post cash-out depression. It is another paradox of the crypto rich who has every card in his hand to be happy, but often feel a bit sad and lonely. Sometimes, even though it’s not my job, I had to do some psychological support. A lot of clients have also become my friends, because we have the same age and went through the same “ordeal”. First world problem I know… Remember, cashing out is not the end. It’s actually the beginning. Don’t look back, don’t regret. Cash out partially, because it does not make sense to cash out in full, regret it and want back in. relax.
The race to cash out crypto billionaire and the concept of late exiter. The Winklevoss brothers are obviously the first of a series. There will be crypto billionaires. Many of them. At a certain level you can have a whole family office working for you to manage your assets and take care of your needs . However, let me tell you it’s is not because you made it so big that you should think you are a genius and know everything better than anyone. You should hire professionals to help you. Managing assets require some education around the investment vehicles and risk management strategies. Sorry guys but with all the respect I have for wallstreebet, AMD and YOLO stock picking, some discipline is necessary. The investors who have made money through crypto are generally early adopters. However I have started to see another profile popping up. They are not early adopters. They are late exiters. It is another way but just as efficient. Last week I met the first crypto millionaire I know who first bough bitcoin over 1000$. 55k invested at the beginning of this year. Late adopter & late exiter is a route that can lead to the million.
Last remarks. I know banks, bankers, and FIAT currencies are so last century. I know some of you despise them and would like to have them burn to the ground. With compliance officers taking over the business, I would like to start the fire myself sometimes. I hope this extensive guide has helped some of you. I am around if you need more details. I love my job despite all my frustration towards the banking industry because it makes me meet interesting people on a daily basis. I am a crypto enthusiast myself, and I do think this tech is here to stay and will change the world. Banks will have to adapt big time. Things have started to change already; they understand the threat is real. I can feel the generational gap in Geneva, with all these old bankers who don’t get what’s going on. They glaze at the bitcoin chart on CNBC in disbelief and they start to get it. This bitcoin thing is not a joke. Deep inside, as an early adopter who also intends to be a late exiter, as a libertarian myself, it makes me smile with satisfaction.
Cheers. @swisspb on telegram
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What is Bitcoin Mining?

Crypto mining is painstaking, costly and only sporadically rewarding. Nonetheless, mining has a magnetic appeal for many investors interested in cryptocurrency because of the fact that miners are rewarded for their work with crypto tokens. This may be because entrepreneurial types see mining as pennies from heaven, like California gold prospectors in 1849. And if you are technologically inclined, why not do it?
However, before you invest the time and equipment, read this explainer to see whether mining is really for you. We will focus primarily on Bitcoin (throughout, we'll use "Bitcoin" when referring to the network or the cryptocurrency as a concept, and "bitcoin" when we're referring to a quantity of individual tokens).
The primary draw for many Bitcoin miners is the prospect of being rewarded with valuable bitcoin tokens. That said, you certainly don't have to be a miner to own cryptocurrency tokens. The bitcoin reward that miners receive is an incentive which motivates people to assist in the primary purpose of mining: to support, legitimize and monitor the Bitcoin network and its blockchain. Because these responsibilities are spread among many users all over the world, bitcoin is said to be a "decentralized" cryptocurrency, or one that does not rely on a central bank or government to oversee its regulation.
Bitcoin is the processing of transactions on a Bitcoin network and securing them into the blockchain. Each set of transactions that are processed is a block. The block is secured by the miners. Miners do this by creating a hash that is created from the transactions in the block. This cryptographic hash is then added to the block. The next block of transactions will look to the previous block's hash to verify it is legitimate. Then your miner will attempt to create a new block that contains current transactions and new hash before anyone else's miner can do so.
Since the difficulty of Bitcoin mining is very high now people will pool their miners together to have a better chance of creating a block and having it confirmed before other miners for a share of the current mining reward plus any transaction fees.
The blockchain is like your checkbook register or a general ledger of transactions. The way that Bitcoin mining secures the blockchain makes that ledger tamper-proof and immutable. Each block once made into a block will be verified by nodes on a Bitcoin network. Proof of Work covers Bitcoin transactions in a block and is what your Bitcoin ASIC Miner does. Proof of Work explained: _“In order for a block to be accepted by network participants, miners must complete a proof of work which covers all of the data in the block. The difficulty of this work is adjusted so as to limit the rate at which new blocks can be generated by the network to one every 10 minutes. Due to the very low probability of successful generation, this makes it unpredictable which worker computer in the network will be able to generate the next block.
Each block contains the hash of the preceding block, thus each block has a chain of blocks that together contain a large amount of work. Changing a block (which can only be done by making a new block containing the same predecessor) requires regenerating all successors and redoing the work they contain. This protects the block chain from tampering.” The process of Bitcoin mining while difficult on the technical side to to fully understand can be easily mined by anyone. Miners secure the network by using Proof of Work and creating a hash for each block that is mined, so the blockchain keeps an immutable record of all transactions taking place on the network. Bitcoin mining is competitive, you want to solve or “find” a block before anyone else’s miner does. Then you will get the block reward and transaction fees from the block.
What Coin Miners Actually Do
Miners are getting paid for their work as auditors. They are doing the work of verifying previous bitcoin transactions. Double spending is a scenario in which a bitcoin owner illicitly spends the same bitcoin twice. With physical currency, this isn't an issue: once you hand someone a $20 bill to buy a bottle of vodka, you no longer have it, so there's no danger you could use that same $20 bill to buy lotto tickets next door. With digital currency, however, as the Investopedia dictionary explains, "there is a risk that the holder could make a copy of the digital token and send it to a merchant or another party while retaining the original."
Let's say you had one legitimate $20 bill and one counterfeit of that same $20. If you were to try to spend both the real bill and the fake one, someone that took the trouble of looking at both of the bills' serial numbers would see that they were the same number, and thus one of them had to be false. What a bitcoin miner does is analogous to that—they check transactions to make sure that users have not illegitimately tried to spend the same bitcoin twice. This isn't a perfect analogy—we'll explain in more detail below.
Note that verifying 1 MB worth of transactions makes a coin miner eligible to earn bitcoin—not everyone who verifies transactions will get paid out. 
Mining and Bitcoin Circulation
In addition to lining the pockets of miners and supporting the bitcoin ecosystem, mining serves another vital purpose: It is the only way to release new cryptocurrency into circulation. In other words, miners are basically "minting" currency. For example, as of November 2019, there were around 18 million bitcoin in circulation. Aside from the coins minted via the genesis block (the very first block, which was created by founder Nakamoto, every single one of those bitcoin came into being because of miners. In the absence of miners, Bitcoin as a network would still exist and be usable, but there would never be any additional bitcoin. There will eventually come a time when bitcoin mining ends; per the Bitcoin Protocol, the total number of bitcoin will be capped at 21 million. However, because the rate of bitcoin "mined" is reduced over time, the final bitcoin won't be circulated until around the year 2140.
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Galileo — Astronomical Discoveries (ii)

by John Lord, LL. D. Galileo has now attained the highest object of his ambition. He is at the head, confessedly, of all the scien- tific men of Europe. He has an ample revenue; he is independent, and has perfect leisure. Even the Pope is gracious to him when he makes a visit to Rome; while cardinals, princes, and ambassadors rival one an- other in bestowing upon his attention and honors. But there is no height of fortune from which a man may not fall; and it is usually the proud, the ostenta- tious, and the contemptuous who do fall, since they create envy, and are apt to make social mistakes. Gal- lileo continued to exasperate his enemies by his arro- gance and sarcasms. "They refused to be dragged at his chariot-wheels." "The Aristotelian professors," says Brewster, "the temporizing Jesuits, the political church- men, and that timid but respectable body who at all times dread innovation, whether it be in legislation of science, entered into an alliance against the philosoph- ical tyrant who threatened them with the penalties of knowledge." The church dignitaries were especially hostile, since they thought the tendency of Galileo's investigations was to undermine the Bible. Flanked by the logic f the schools and the popular interpreta- tion of Scripture, and backed by the civil power, they were eager for war. Galileo wrote a letter to his friend the Abbé Castelli, the object of which was "to prove that the Scriptures were not intended to teach science and philosophy," but to point out the way to salvation. He was indiscreet enough to write a longer letter of seventy pages, quoting the Fathers in support of his views, and attempting to show that Nature and Scrip- ture could not speak a different language. It was this reasoning which irritated the dignitaries of the Church more than his discoveries, since it is plain that the literal language of Scripture upholds the doctrine that the sun revolves around the earth. He was wrong or foolish in trying to harmonize revelation and science. He should have advanced his truths of science and left them to take care of themselves. He should not have meddled with the dogmas of his enemies: not that he was wrong in doing so, but it was not polite or wise; and he was not called upon to harmonize Scripture with science. So his enemies busily employed themselves in collect- ing evidence against him. They laid their complaints before the Inquisition of Rome, and on the occasion of paying a visit to that city, he was summoned be- fore that tribunal which has been the shame and the reproach of the Catholic Church. It was a tribunal utterly incompetent to sit upon his case, since it was ignorant of science. In 1615 it was decreed that Gali- leo should renounce his obnoxious doctrines, and pledge himself neither to defend nor publish them in the future. And Galileo accordingly, in dread of prison, appeared before Cardinal Bellarmine and declared that he would renounce the doctrines he had defended. The cardinal was not an ignorant man. He was the greatest theolo- gian in the Catholic Church; but his bitterness and ran- cor in reference to the new doctrines were as marked as his scholastic learning. The Pope, supposing that Galileo would adhere to his promise, was gracious and kind. But the philosopher could not resist the temptation of ridiculing the advocates of the old system. He called them "paper philosophers." In private he made a mockery of his persecutors. One Saisi undertook to prove from Suidas that the Babylonians used to cook eggs by whirling them swiftly on a sling; to which he replied: "If Saisi insists on the authority of Suidas, that the Babylonians cooked eggs by whirling them on a sling, I will believe it. But I must add that we have eggs and slings, and strong men to whirl them, yet they will not become cooked; nay, if they were hot at first, they more quickly become cool; and as there is nothing wanting to us but to be Babylonians, it follows that Being Babylonians is the true cause why the eggs became hard." Such was his prevailing mockery and ridicule. "Your Eminence," write one of his friends to the Cardinal D'Este, "would be delighted if you could hear him hold forth in the midst of fifteen or twenty, all violently attacking him, sometimes in one house, and sometimes in another; but he is armed after such a fashion that he laughs them all to scorn." Galileo, after his admonition from the Inquisition, and his promise to hold his tongue, did keep compara- tively quiet for a while, amusing himself with mechan- ics, and striving to find out a new way of discovering longitude at sea. But the want of better telescopes baffled his efforts; and even to-day it is said "that no telescope has yet been made which is capable of observ- ing at sea the eclipses of Jupiter's satellites, by which on shore this method of finding longitude has many advantages." On the accession of a new Pope (1623), Urban VIII., who had been his friend as Cardinal Barberini, Galileo, after eight years of silence, thought that he might now venture to publish his great work on the Ptolemaic and Copernican systems, especially as the papal censor also had been his friend. But the publication of the book was delayed nearly two years, so great were the obsta- cles to be surmounted, and so prejudiced and hostile was the Church to the new views. At last it appeared in Florence in 1632, with a dedication to the Grand Duke,——not the Cosimo who had rewarded him, but his son Ferdinand, who was a mere youth. It was an un- fortunate thing for Galileo to do. He had pledged his word not to advocate the Copernican theory, which was already sufficiently established in the opinions of phi- losophers. The form of the book was even offensive, in the shape of dialogues. One of them he ridiculed under the name of Simplicio. This was supposed to mean the Pope himself,——so they made the Pope believe, and he was furious. Old Cardinal Bellarmine roared like a lion. The whole Church, as represented by its dignita- ries, seemed to be against him. The Pope seized the old weapons of the Clements and the Gregorians to hurl upon the daring innovator; but delayed to hurl them, since he dealt with a giant, covered not only by the shield of the Medici, but that of Minerva. So he convened a congregation of cardinals, and submitted to them the examination of the detested book. The author was summoned to Rome to appear before the Inquisition, and answer at its judgement-seat the charges against him as a heretic. The Tuscan ambassador expostulated with his Holiness against such a cruel thing, considering Galileo's age, infirmities, and fame, ——all to no avail. He was obliged to obey the sum- mons. At the age of seventy this venerated philoso- pher, infirm, in precarious health, appeared before the Inquisition of cardinals, not one of whom had any familiarity with abstruse speculations, or even with mathematics. Whether out of regard to his age and infirmities, or to his great fame and illustrious position as the great- est philosopher of his day, the cardinals treat Galileo with unusual indulgence. Though a prisoner of the Inquisiton, and completely in its hands, with power of life and death, it would seem that he is allowed every personal comfort. His table is provided by the Tuscan ambassador; a servant obeys his slightest nod; he sleeps in the luxurious apartment of the fiscal of that dreaded body; he is even liberated on the responsi- bility of the cardinal; he is permitted to lodge in the palace of the ambassador; he is allowed time to make his defence; those holy Inquisitors would not unneces- sarily harm a hair on his head. Nor was it probably their object to inflict bodily torments: these would call out sympathy and degrade the tribunal. It was enough to threaten these torments, to which they did not wish to resort except in case of necessity. There is no evidence that Galileo was personally tortured. He was indeed a martyr, but not a sufferer except in humiliated pride. Probably the object of his enemies was to silence him, to degrade him, to expose his name to infamy, to arrest the spread of his doctrines, to bow his old head in shame, to murder his soul, to make him stab himself, and be his own executioner, by an act which all posterity should regard as unworthy of his name and cause. After a fitting time has elapsed,——four months of dignified session,——the mind of the Holy Tribunal is made up. Its judgement is ready. On the 22nd of June, 1633, the prisoner appears in penitential dress at the convent of Minerva, and the presiding cardinal, in his scarlet robes, delivers the sentence of the Court, ——that Galileo, as a warning to others, and by way of salutary penance, be condemned to the formal prison of the Holy Office, and be ordered to recite once a week the seven Penitential Psalms for the benefit of his should,——apparently a light sentence, only to be nominally imprisoned a few days, and to repeat those Psalms which were the life of blessed saints in mediæ- val times. But this was nothing. He was required to recant, to abjure the doctrines he had taught; not in private, but publicly before the world. Will he recant? Will he subscribe himself an imposter? Will he abjure the doctrines on which his fame rests? Oh, tell it not in Gath! The timid, infirm, life-loving old patriarch of science falls. He is not great enough for martyrdom. He chooses shame. In an evil hour this venerable sage falls down upon his knees before the assembled cardinals, and reads aloud this recantation: "I, Galileo Galilei, aged seventy, on my knees before you most reverend lords, and having my eye on the Holy Gospel, which I do touch with my lips, thus publish and declare, that I believe, and always have believed, and always will believe every article which the Holy Catholic Roman Church holds and teaches. And as I have written a book in which I have main- tained that the sun is the centre, which doctrine is re- pugnant to the Holy Scriptures, I, with sincere heart and unfeigned faith, do abjure and detest, and curse the said error and heresy, and all other errors contrary to said Holy Church, whose penance I solemnly swear to observe faithfully, and all other penances which have been or shall be laid upon me." It would appear from this confession that he did not declare his doctrines false, only that they were in opposition to the Scriptures; and it is also said that as he arose from his knees he whispered to a friend, "It does move, nevertheless." As some excuse for him, he acted with the certainty that he would be tortured if he did not recant; and at the worst he had only affirmed that his scientific theory was in opposition to the Scriptures. He had not denied his master, like Peter; he had not recanted the faith like Cranmer; he had simply yielded for fear of bodily torments, and therefore was not sincere in the abjuration which he made to save his life. Nevertheless, his recantation was a fall, and in the eyes of the scientific world per- haps greater than that of Bacon. Galileo was false to philosophy and himself. Why did he suffer himself to be conquered by priests and despised? Why did so bold and witty and proud a man betray his cause? Why did he not accept the penalty of intellectual freedom, and die, if he must? What was life to him, dis- eased, infirm, and old? What had he more to gain? Was it not a good time to die and consummate his protests? Only one hundred and fifty years before, one of his countrymen had accepted torture and death rather than recant his religious opinions. Why could not Galileo have been as great in martyrdom as Savon- arola? He was a renowned philosopher and brilliant as a man of genius,——but he was a man of the world; he loved ease and length of days. He could ridicule and deride opponents,——he could not suffer pain. He had a great intellect, but not a great soul. There were flaws in his morality; he was anything but a saint or hero. He was great in mind, and yet he was far from being great in character. We pity him, while we exalt him. Nor is he world harsh to him; it forgives him for his services. The worst that can be said, is that he was not willing to suffer ad die for his opinions: and how many philosophers are there who are willing to be martyrs? Nevertheless, in the eyes of philosophers he has dis- graced himself. Let him then return to Florence, to his own Arceti. He is a silenced man. But he is silenced, not because he believed with Copernicus, but because he ridiculed his enemies and confronted the Church, and in the eyes of blinded partisans had attacked divine authority. Why did Copernicus escape persecution? The Church must have known that there was something in his discoveries, and in those of Gali- leo, worthy of attention. About this time Pascal wrote: "It is vain that you have procured the con- demnation of Galileo. That will never prove the earth to be at rest. If unerring observation proves that it turns round, not all mankind together can keep it from turning, or themselves from turning with it." But let that persecution pass. It is no worse than other persecutions, either in Catholic or Protestant ranks. It is no worse than burning witches. Not only is intolerance in human nature, but there is a repugnance among the learned to receive new opinions when these interfere with their ascendency. The op- position to Galileo's discoveries was no greater than that of the Protestant Church, half a century ago, to some of the inductions of geology. How bitter the hatred, even in our times, to such men as Huxley and Darwin! True, they have not proved their theories as Galileo did; but they gave a great shock as he to the minds of theologians. all science is progressive, yet there are thousands who oppose its progress. And if learning and science should establish a different mean- ing to certain texts from which theological deductions are drawn, and these premises be undermined, there would be the same bitterness among the defenders of the present system of dogmatic theology. Yet theology will live, and never lose its dignity and importance; only, some of its present assumptions may be discarded. God will never be dethroned from the world he gov- erns; but some of his ways may appear to be different from what was once supposed. And all science is not only progressive, but it appears to be bold and scornful and proud,——at least, its advocates are and ever have been contemptuous of all other departments of knowl- edge but its own. So narrow and limited is the human mind in the midst of its triumphs. So full of preju- dices are even the learned and the great. Let us turn then to give another glance at the fallen philosopher in his final retreat at Arceti. He lives under restrictions. But hey allow hi leisure and choice wines, of which he is fond, and gardens and friends; and many come to do him reverence. He amuses his old age with the studies of his youth and manhood, and writes dialogues on Motion, and even discovers the phenomena of the moon's libration; and by means of the pendulum he gives additional impor- tance to astronomical science. But he is not allowed to leave his retirement, not even to visit his friends in Florence. The wrath of the Inquisition still pursues him, even in his villa at Arceti in the suburbs of Florence. Then renewed afflictions come. He loses his daughter, who was devoted to him; and her death nearly plunges him into despair. The bulwarks of his heart break down; a flood of grief overwhelms his stricken soul. His appetite leaves him; his health forsakes him; his infirmities increase upon him. His right eye loses its power,——that eye that had seen more of the heavens than the eyes of all who had gone before him. He became blind and deaf, and cannot sleep, afflicted with rheumatic pains and maladies for- lorn. No more for him is rest, or peace, or bliss; still less the glories of his brighter days,——the sight of glit- tering fields, the gems of heaven, without which "Neither breath of Morn, when she ascends With charm of earliest birds, nor rising sun On this delightful land, nor herb, fruit, flower Glittering with dew, nor fragrance after showers, nor grateful evening mild, . . . is sweet." No more shall he gaze on features that he loves, on stars, or trees, or hills. No more to him "Returns Day, or the sweet approach of even or morn, or sight of vernal bloom, or summer's rose, Or flocks, ir herds, or human face divine; But clouds, instead, and ever-during dark Surround" [him]. It was in those dreary desolate days at Arceti, "Unseen In manly beauty Milton stood before him, Gazing in reverent awe,——Milton, his guest, Just then come forth, all life and enterprise; While he in his old age, . . . . . . exploring with his staff, His eyes upturned as to the golden sun, His eyeballs rolling." This may have been the punishment of his recanta- tion,——not Inquisitorial torture, but the consciousness that he had lost his honor. Poor Galileo! thine illus- trious visitor, when his affliction came, could cast his sightless eyeballs inward, and see and tell "things un- attempted yet in prose or rhyme,"——not "Rocks, caves, lakes, bogs, fens, and shades of death, . . . . . . . . . Where all life dies, death lives, and Nature breeds . . . . . . . . . Gorgons, and Hydras, and Chimeras dire," but of eternal Providence," and "Eden with surpass- ing glory crowned," and our first parents," and of "salvation," "goodness infinite," of "wisdom," which when we know we need no higher though all the stars we know by name,——— "All secrets of the deep, all Nature's works, Or works of God in heaven, or air, or sea." And yet, thou stricken observer of the heavenly bodies! hadst thou but known what marvels would be revealed by the power of thy wondrous instrument after thou should'st be laid lifeless and cold beneath the marble floor of Santa Croce, at the age of seventy-eight, without a monument (although blessed on his death- bed by Pope Urban), having died a prisoner of the Inquisition, yet not without having rendered to astro- nomical science services of utmost value,——even thou might have died rejoicing, as one of the greatest bene- factors of the world. And thy discoveries shall be forever held in gratitude; they shall herald others of even greater importance. Newton shall prove that the different planets are attracted to the sun in the inverse ratio of the squares of their distances; that the earth has a force on the moon identical with the force of gravity, and that all celestial bodies, to the utmost boundaries of space, mutually attract each other; that all particles of matter are governed by the same law,——the great law of gravitation, by which "astronomy," in the language of Whewell, "passed from boyhood to manhood, and by which law the great discoverer added more to the realm of science than any man before or since his day." And after Newton shall pass away, honored and lamented, and be buried with almost royal pomp in the vaults of Westminster, Halley and other mathematicians shall construct lunar tables, by which longitude shall be accurately measured on the pathless ocean. Lagrange and Laplace shall apply Newtonian theory to de- determine the secular inequalities of celestial motion; they shall weigh absolutely the amount of matter in the planets; they shall show how far their orbits de- viate from circles; and they shall enumerate the cycles of changes detected in the circuit of the moon. Clai- raut shall remove the perplexity occasioned by the seeming discrepancy between the observed and com- puted motions of the moon's perigee. Halley shall demonstrate the importance of observations of the tran- sit of Venus as the only certain way of obtaining the sun's parallax, and hence the distance of the sun from the earth; he shall predict the return of that myste- rious body which we call a comet. Herschel shall con- struct a telescope which magnifies two thousand times, and add another planet to our system beyond the mighty orb of Saturn. Römer shall estimate the velocity of light from the eclipse of Jupiter's satel- lites. Bessel shall pass the impassable gulf of space and measure the distance of some of the fixed stars, although such is the immeasurable space between the earth and those distant suns that the parallax of only about thirty has yet been discovered with our finest instruments,——so boundless is the material universe, so vast are the distances, that light, travelling one hun- dred and sixty thousand miles with every pulsation of the blood, will not reach us from some of those remote worlds in one hundred thousand years. So marvellous shall be the victories of science, that the perturbations of the planets in their courses shall reveal the exist- ence of a new one more distant than Uranus, and Leverrier shall tell at what part of the heavens that star shall first be seen. So far as we have discovered, the universe which we have observed with telescopic instruments has no limits that mortals can define, and in comparison with its magnitude our earth is less than a grain of sand, and is so old that no genius can calculate and no imag- ination can conceive when it had its beginning. All that we know is, that suns exist at distances we cannot define. But around what center do they revolve? Of what are they composed? Are they inhabited by intel- ligent and immortal beings? Do we know that they are not eternal, except from the divine declaration that there was a time when the Almighty fiat went forth for this grand creation? Creation involves a creator; and can the order and harmony seen in Nature's laws exist without supreme intelligence and power? Who, then, and what, is God? "Canst thou by searching find out Him? Knowest thou the ordinances of Heaven? Canst thou bind the sweet influences of the Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?" What an atom is this world in the light of science! Yet what dignity has man by the light of revelation! What majesty and power and glory has God! What goodness, benevolence, and love, that even a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice,——that we are the special objects of His providence and care! Is there an imagination so lofty that will not be oppressed with the discoveries that even the telescope has made? Ah, to what exalted heights reason may soar when allied with faith! How truly it should elevate us above the evils of this brief and busy existence to the conditions of that other life,—— "When the soul, Advancing ever to the Source of light And all perfection, lives, adores, and reigns in cloudless knowledge, purity, and bliss!" AUTHORITIES. Dekambre, Histoire de l'Astronomie; Arago, Histoire de l'Astronomie; Life of Galileo, in Cabinet Library; Life of Galileo, by Brewster; Lives of Galileo, by Italian and Spanish Literary Men; Whewell's History of Inductive Sciences; Plurality of Worlds; Humboldt's Cosmos; Nichols' Architecture of the Heavens; Chalmers' Astronomical Discourses; Life of Kepler, Library of Useful Knowledge; Brewster's Life of Tycho Brahe, of Kepler, and of Sir Isaac Newton; Mitchell's Stellar and Planetary Worlds; Brad- ley's Correspondence; Airy's Reports; Voiron's History of Astronomy; Philosophical Transactions; Everett's Orations of Galileo; Life of Coper- nicus; Bayly's Astronomy; Encyclopædia Britannica, Art. Astronomy; Proctor's Lectures. 
from Beacon Lights of History, by John Lord, LL. D., Volume III, Part II: Renaissance and Reformation, pp. 447 - 463 Copyright, 1883, by John Lord. Copyright, 1921, By Wm. H. Wise & Co., New York
ይህ የእርስዎ ቦታ ነው። አንዳችሁ ለሌላው ደጎች ሁኑ። https://old.reddit.com/thesee [♘] [♰] [☮]
submitted by MarleyEngvall to arceti [link] [comments]

BiblePay Homeless Ministries

Biblepay for the Homeless by webster22
Look what someone has experimented with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvHicsIN8J4
Imagine mining to help homeless people with real items they need. Delivered anonymously or ministered in person! Delivered within hours!
At a minimum let us think of items the homeless need. And add it to the store catalog My list so far: - sleeping bags - blankets - socks / beanies - small cooking kits
"And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones because he is My disciple, truly I tell you, he will never lose his reward."
"One who is gracious to a poor man lends to the LORD, And He will repay him for his good deed."
I have started a spreadsheet with items here. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRWYH3gi6tMJlkMJWuC4NNxPMYFi6CUCCIFq1kXpH_2xDCUXu_FhNgEUTlkzfmldJEFGH3un82nOwnk/pubhtml
Please post suggested links here. Include: - product name - amazon id - amazon link
"Just out of curiosity, I wonder if we should offer moving blankets for sale from the wallet? Wouldnt it be better to get 5 for the price of $14 and help 5 homeless people? We could offer both: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EX3A87O" -Rob
"I would say stay away from bulky items. Keep in mind being homeless means
  • You can not store your things safely anywhere (you stash them in bushes)
  • You are told to move whenever you are 'caught' sleeping somewhere
  • Nice things bring comfort. A NICE blanket can make all the difference when you have nothing
So think about what you could reasonably store in a backpack that you have to live out of" -webster22
❤️ Biblepay Homeless Ministries ❤️ http://a.co/4hRARlR
Bitcoin $100,000?? To the moon?? Lambos??? We mine, we trade, we hope for our ticket to crypto paradise. But what about those without? What about the kingdom of Heaven??

What about the poor? What about the homeless? They of course suffer.

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the land. Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be satisfied. Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Blessed are the clean of heart, for they will see God. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

❤️ Biblepay Homeless Ministry ❤️ is a project inspired to help this group.

Biblepay is already mining for orphans. Let us also mine for the homeless For the forgotten, the ignored, and the castaway.

We can bring them hope and comfort in a very real way. How? By spending Biblepay on items of real need

Find those in need around you. Talk to them. Ask them. Then come back again. And surprise them with the gift of Biblepay giving.

This amazon list is a starting point. http://a.co/4hRARlR

Lets add them to the Biblepay store. And think of more

We can make this vision happen. Look at this video. We can do this at scale with Biblepay mining! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oKl_qDJHt4

P.S - Add your item ideas in reply to this. I will find a way soon to make spreadsheet to make it easer to add for everyone
Phase 1 - Needs analysis - Research items that the homeless need. Fundamental human needs like shelter, warmth, food, sanitation, and above all SCRIPTURE - Add items to current Biblepay store
Phase 2 - Outreach - Sponsor a homeless person I just cant use that label. They are real persons! so... - Sponsor John, or Jane, or Eli, etc. Make friends with them. Provide for them. Minister to them to them
Phase 3 - Automate - Biblepay to anonymous prime now delivery would be ideal - Find ways to not game system.
Something to keep in mind - A lot of homeless do have phones. So could be a new way to tip them?
"Rob - Is the amazon ideas format efficient for you? Or do you need a spreadsheet with amazonid or ISBN? Let me know what works best for updating the products list in the store"
"No this is good, we actually use the alphanumeric code that you have in the sheet right after the first part of the URL so this is good. I would like to add the products for the homeless to the actual wallet! (And the store). Then anyone with a biblepay wallet can buy a homeless item directly from the wallet." -Rob
"Can you drop ship to an amazon locker? Or some other way of anonymous delivery? I could really use a nice blanket. Its COLD here!!" -webster22
Actually, I think we can ship to an amazon locker. I dont mind paying for the blanket if someone out here wants to ship it from their wallet to him.
It looks like if we enter the amazon locker info in our wallet: Amazon Locker - Erika 2631 Cross Timbers Rd, at BBVA, Flower Mound TX 75028-2717
We can then ship an AWS item paid in BiblePay to Webster.
Webster what address do you want this to go to? IE what locker, full name and address? And what is your contact name?
"Cool! Thing is I think amazon locker requires a phone for texting - I think. I do not have one ATM. Let me see how it can work. This will be awesome!
So, the obvious question, how about the user enters his own product id? Then we can order computer eq, or anything from amazon. right?"
Bear with me .. reading all about it so no wasted money/effort. Ideal scenario you can gift me anonymously. And me without a phone . Just email access.
Even for a trully homeless person this would work. You can print out the email receipt and give it to someone. They can pick it up at the locker.
I added these products to our in-wallet e-commerce system: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRWYH3gi6tMJlkMJWuC4NNxPMYFi6CUCCIFq1kXpH_2xDCUXu_FhNgEUTlkzfmldJEFGH3un82nOwnk/pubhtml
Now you can type:
exec listproducts 
And see them, and buy one in-wallet if you want. These are also available from the pool for purchase.
Regarding purchasing user driven ad-hoc items individually: Not yet.
Regarding requiring texting to send an item to a locker: I dont know. All I know is one of our users can enter the full name address and contact info in and ship an item to a locker. Then it would be up to you to provide the correct name and tracking # to the locker to pick it up. You might want to check out the policies with amazon first before we try.
Regarding buying a wool blanket: Ill pay for it if you need one- but please work with a volunteer here who will set it up to ship for you and then I will reimburse the volunteer with the bbp. (It may be best to ship it to a friend while you help us investigate the intricacies of locker shipping. We can guinea pig a smaller test item to a locker, like our NKJV bible).
I agree. Very kind offer for the blanket brother. But it wont fit in the locker
Yes for history sake the first item would have to be a Bible Duh. Though I have so many. Id settle for this smaller item https://www.amazon.com/Super-Giant-Print-Dictionary-Concordance/dp/0805494928/
Reading the full details. I think all that is required for actual pick up is an email address. So contact info could be Mr Potatoe and Locker street address, and contact email.
Then amazon emails me the pin number. There are no id requirements.
Thats OK we dont want to ship you a bible if you already have too many, and Im not entirely sure how many people will buy that more expensive bible, so please, just come up with another productID that is useful that fits in a locker, and we can test it with that.
Regarding the e-mail, Im not sure the user is going to be providing an email. We can have our volunteer attempt to buy you this other product and see what happens each step of the way. Maybe we can put a secret code in some part of our AWS process, but right now, the e-mail is not part of that process at all. I would like to know if the recipient name can be used when picking it up with the tracking # only. Our user wont be receiving a pin in the email or any email from biblepay. They will have some order info and a tracking # in their RPC console though.
I think the way it works is
  • Someone places an order on amazon
  • In shipping, they select the locker
  • Amazon ships the item to locker
  • Amazon emails customer a pin code.
  • Customer enters code at locker to open it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customedisplay.html?nodeId=201910660 https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customedisplay.html/ref=hp_left_v4_sib?ie=UTF8&nodeId=202052120
So the system would have to trigger this on the Amazon side
6 pair of wool socks. Very useful for anyone homeless or not https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0192BWXKM I cant message till tomorrow. So I can send you the locker location, an email, and a contact name.
Webster, unfortunately the first package sent to the amazon locker in West LA was lost by the carrier. Im on the phone with them now and they are refunding me. Lets pray for Webster that he receives an unexpected windfall. Also, one other problem: the socks were delayed until next Wednesday.
References: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26548979#msg26548979 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26553193#msg26553193 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26553557#msg26553557 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26573543#msg26573543 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26574699#msg26574699 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26577031#msg26577031 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26577096#msg26577096 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26577324#msg26577324 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26577426#msg26577426 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26577693#msg26577693 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26577754#msg26577754 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26577882#msg26577882 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26578028#msg26578028 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26578316#msg26578316 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2388064.msg26578634#msg26578634
submitted by togoshige to BiblePay [link] [comments]

Continue:Chinese Comments for《Why against SegWit and Core? Jiang Zhuo’er, who invested millions in mining, gives his answers.》

Yesterday,The article “Why against SegWit and Core? Jiang Zhuo’er, who invested millions in mining, gives his answers.” caused a lot debates here. For the further communication between China and west, I’ll conclude some informations about the article, then translate some of the Chinese comments & opinions on this article.
BitKan is a famous platform bases on China, we offer all the information in crypto currency industry, including market data, all news resources in the world, price monitor, P2P bitcoins exchange,etc. BitKan is available in multilingual versions and you can try it out and also join the heated discussion here:BITKAN
BItKan just here to offer an exchange of information. We are not Jiang Zhuo'er or in any way associated with him.
Here is the original article(Chinese Version): https://bitkan.com/news/topic/25747 Here is the original article(English Version): https://bitkan.com/news/topic/25778 Here is the discussion on reddit/bitcoin: https://np.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/5egroc/why_against_segwit_and_core_jiang_zhuoer_who/ Here is the discussion on reddit/btc: https://www.reddit.com/btc/comments/5eh2cc/why_against_segwit_and_core_jiang_zhuoer_who/
Let’s see what Chinese comments under the article (post on BitKan Chinese news page):
Against
独行
If the writer does not want to see him nailed up on the pillar of humiliation, go learn some economics, plow through Satoshi’s whitepaper again esp. the economic logics in it. Also the writer needs to learn coding so as to avoid a mentality of a liberal art student. TBH your article is getting dramatic. 1. 1) Core never said the block size will stay at 1 MB, SegWit is a robust strategy at this moment. 2. 2) Your so-called HK consensus is nothing but a paper with seals from a few pools, a one-sided opinion. It’s not consensus. 3. 3) What an interesting conspiracy theory, you sound like the rest of the world is against China. How sick is that? Bitcoin has no national boundaries.
lxq990061
Back in 1840 in San Francisco, miners got rich with gold. But many more joined the game later on and with more ppl leaving the west empty-handed. How tragic. This is history, just like the one happening with Bitcoin. It was the pubs and inns opened near the gold mines earned real money: like the platforms today. Devs at Core are just like the merchants back in the day sipping their tea and trash-talking. But Core is indeed stupid: an 8-year long decentralized system requires support from a 95%? Some serious shit in their head.
讨厌装逼犯
You guys trash talk everyday non-stop...be quiet! This kind of argument cannot convince anyone. Harsh words+personall attacks just make it more chaotic. Politics...parties...freedom...conspiracy: disgusting. And this kind of article? Who you can convince? This is not the day 1 of the debate. True decision makers already have it in their mind. You ordinary ppl can change nothing even if you are convinced. My guess is whoever writes this kind of story must be someone who enjoys being worshiped by ppl on top of the ranks of “revolution”. You just like to quench your own thirst for fame. Worst case has nothing to do with tech, it’s a match for computation power, capital and strength. System set that C.power decides so let it be. Bitcoin will take on its due course no matter what. The disgusting part is the incitation, the manipulation of ppl’s emotions, and cap everything “a matter of revolution”. We Chinese ppl know this too well. Scaling is no longer about tech, but winning. Is it meaningful? The shame is not with the devs, they (inl. Core and BU) contributed their wisdom and labor. The real shame is with you talkers who humiliate ppl. You are so good, why not show me your money? Bitcoin is a merely 10B system, go buy it. If you cannot, just don’t trash talk.
idgui.com
1) lots of companies and apps are waiting for segwit, and OP is not against segwit, then https://bitcoincore.org/en/segwit_adoption/ why not implement it in the easiest way? SF is quite close , as long as enough miners support. HF egwit delivers community splitting risks. 2) LN can be decentralized enough should there be enough LN nodes. It won’t be concentrated on a handful of nodes. We can implement some limits on the main chain if we see an inclination toward centralization, such as higher tx fee for big nodes to limit big centralized LN node. 3) Main chain tx fee won’t be ridiculously high. If it does, miners get RICH, no? now we have 4% in tx fee, raise by 25 times you get more reward from it than the block reward. Then it’s acceptable even now, let alone future. Big amount tx are few. Small amount can be offchain, on LN or on sidechains. 4) SegWit has been thoroughly tests, and it’s a SF, compatible to previous nodes. There won’t be a major issue. Any code has risks, can you call BU risk-free? It depends on the level of risk. Segwit SF is acceptable, at most rolling back to 0.13.0, and segwit can increase little by little, not a sudden change. BU’s HF is different, with risks of splitting the entire ecosystem. 5) Miners have freedom of voting, but do consider the interests at large. You must represent the interests of the entire ecosystem, at least try to. We need decentralized nodes and unified ecosystem. SF segwit needs to be activated under consensus, and we can wait. HF needs even greater consensus or we risk losing it all. If we cannot have enough consensus for either HF or SF segwit, then we should let the SF segwit happen, since it has no risks of destruction.
Maybe I wrote it in bad order, let me edit it in the future. Don’t jump to conclusion OP. Segwit should be activated in the future.
Support
gjw
Core knows nothing about the spirit of contract. They ignore their public ann. a few months ago. A direct scaling is the simplest and most effective way of solving our urgent problem. Why roll out this thing that requires long-time testing? To have a worldwide success for Bitcoin, you need to provide ppl with access at low costs. It’s just like Internet. Core either has a vicious intention or has no faith in Bitcoin. If one day Bitcoin is being used by 9 digits of ppl, the main chain block size cannot be enough even at 100 MB. Micro payment still needs to go through something like LN. What’s the meaning of keeping the block size at 1MB? 7 years ago the block size was set at 1MB, what’s the hardware like 7 years ago? What the growth of bandwidth and storage in 7 years? 10 years or 20 years from now? The main battlefield of Bitcoin is in China. We Chinese ppl should not be satisfied with mining a few coins or gamble on a few exchanges. Take the responsibility and obligation of contribution. But, words are so much cheaper than codes. We need advanced devs for the main battlefield.
changyong
I appreciate Jiang Zhuo’er’s main points, they coincide with my opinions on the Chengdu blockchain conference: 1. scaling, segwit and LN should all be implemented. 2.it is highly wrong to make the main chain a settlement network 3. LN and the main chain are for different purposes and should not be inter-placeable. 4. main chain jam is driving towards LN Matthew Effect and monopolies. 5. miner decision is most rational and trust-worthy 6. tech and propaganda monopolies are endangering the whole system 7. SF increases long-term systemic debt and risks
A supplementary 8 points 1. blocksize cannot meet with the market demand for a long time---this is no less significant of a tech loophole. So a HF is a worthy action. 2. HF is an important instrument for Bitcoin to metabolize. Demonizing HF is suicidal. 3. The lack of incentives for devs and the centralization of tech are the paramount systemic risks at this moment 4. BU is a good start for competition, which will eliminate tech centralization. 5. HF scaling will not change the current landscape of profits and power, turning the main chain into a settlement network will. The latter carries great risks of Bitcoin failure. 6. Demonizing HF is a coverup for the changes and risks associated with the settlement network roadmap. 7. Democracy of Bitcoin requires ration, not loyalty and passion from the Bitcoiners, else, we are en route dictatorship. 8. For the sake of the wealth and energy you put into this, plz resort to reason, not blind worshipping and personal attacks.
myx
If you can compete with confidence, do compete under the same level of consensus. Bitcoin is the flapship of cryptos. An easy HF and an influential forked chain in the aftermath can be catastrophic. Miners can benefit in the short run after the spilitting. But in the long run, we all lose. A lowered threshold in anticipation of an easier fork is much worse than staying put. Based on Boss Jiang’s statement, 95% consensus can produce a 5% forked chain...then there will always be minority miners forking. In the end, the recognition of Bitcoin comes from users. Self-important forks by some miners are nothing but Alts. We have enough alts, no? So, 95%+ consensus is the only way to maintain unification. A coin without support from most of the users is an alt! Miners do get to decide, but the ultimate right is with the users’ recognition! If a 95%+ consensus is with a solution, then the rest minority do not matter. So, a solution without a high degree of consensus in a way is splitting the ecosystem. If BU dares not to bring up a 95% threshold, and in your own words, if a 51% HF is enough for a HF...you will end up splitting the ecosystem! Boss Jiang is a miner, and he feels he’s investing bigly, and he gets to decide. But in fact you are just for profit, not some Samaritan. Miners are just making profits on the most-recognized coin. Nothing to do with ethics. But a fair competition, by your own words, must be on the same criteria. Just like the 270 electoral votes in US presidential election. A common threshold. So, if BU wants to compete with segwit, do so under the same level of consensus. Any solution under a 95% consensus is just trolling for your own cowardice!
indexindex
The scaling debate involves 1)scaling for Bitcoin’s future and 2)breaking dev monopoly. Dev is the easiest part to control than hashing powers and users, literally the weakest part in the decentralization course of Bitcon. Spend 7 or 8 digits of USD on core devs, then you can control a multi-billion level product...that’s a good bargin for numerous capitals. Devs must realize that they can be abandoned should they do harm to Bitcoin in exchange of their own interests. Not just Core, but every dev team should understand this. BS’ investment must go burn, so as to make it a good example for future players.
Others
Tips: ID name “sfire” is the writer Jiang Zhuoer.
bikanyong to sfire
Hi Jiang I got 2 questions for you: 1. 1) apart from using high tx fee to chase tx to the LN, what’s the highlight of LN per se that draws tx? 2. 2) You mentioned LN will become a giant-dominated market based on Matthew Effect. Is our main chain facing the same risks?
sfire to bikanyong
Yes. LN is a secondary network with no need to broadcast network-wide. So LN has more frequent tx than the main chain. Small amount fast payment can be allowed. There is a price for not broadcasting network-wide: serious centralization risks (as seen in the article). So it can only be used for auxiliary purposes, but not as a foundation. The main chain is free from this risk becoz all miners on the main chain are equal. Gov may shut down 99% of the miners while the remaining 1% could still be handling tx. LN differentiates nodes with big ones and small ones. In the end, the big ones may end up huge and be banned by the gov. With the remaining allowed un-compliant small nodes, you cannot (very possibly) find a route of transfer in the LN, causing you failures in transfers.
bikanyongto sfire
You mean: Nodes on the main chain are equal, while in the LN, big nodes are more powerful than the small ones. Or put it another way: the nodes on the current main chain are inter-dependent, while they could get competitive against each other on the LN.---is it ok to put it like this?
sfire to bikanyong
It’s not that big nodes on the LN have more power, but connects more users. E.g. many ppl may, for the sake of their rate and service, connect to a giant “Coin-Pay or Coin-Pal” kind of node. If they want to transfer to users on another node called “Coin-Wechat”, they have to go through a route provided by “Coin-Pal”. Then, the giant node “Coin-Pal” bans you, leaving you in de facto ban from transfers to most ppl on the LN.
kok99999 to bikanyong
LN changes the topology of the network, and changes the whole game.
独行
Just becoz you need to enlarge the userbase, you need to scale up? It’s hilarious. The transfer of tx requires cost. No matter how wide is the highway, you don’t charge ppl, you will have a heave traffic. Via the market’s hand, only big amount tx are allowed on the chain---this does not affect the liquidity of onchain assets.
sfire to 独行
You can go offer some advice to the gov and ask them not to build up our infrastructure, since it’s so costy. Just charge ppl money, how convenient is that? Only luxury cars are allowed on the road....this does not affect the vitality of the city.
wz to 独行
What you are saying is not market’s hand. Leaving ppl with no choice is a market behavior? Free competition is the market’s hand.
无名 to 独行
No hard facts other than trashing ppl...no reasoning...these resemble your Core masters.
BTC专业工
I just wanna say: Hail to Multi-Party system! One-Party Dictatorship is doomed.
mellowtone
Support miners, support PoW and computational-power-consensus is the real consensus.
pyjx306
If tx fee goes up, I will quit.
savage
Since Core is so determined to castrate the main chain and revolution miners out, why did they set the 95% threshold? Core has no computation power, and they are so confident that miners will load their heads with enough shit and support Core?
sfire
It’s just a routine to set the 95% threshold for SF. If Core does not use the figure, the anti-Core voice will only grow, furthering their success rate down.
amo1998
95% could be of more complicated reasons. I think BS should have taken into consideration that they control at least 5% of the C.power. (S pool and BTCC pool). If I were BS, I’d have a contingency plan for worst-case scenario. Even 95% means we fail, we BS will not allow for a HF. We can also bash you from a moral high ground and accuse the onchain scailing side.
caitong
I cannot tell which one is better, HF first or SegWit first...both seemed to be practical and dangerous. But both sides have their own political agenda---that’s for sure. We avg. Joes prefer that, no matter what solution taken or risks what come along, just march on. We cannot stay here and die.
wz
No development=you will be taken by someone else. The network jam is significantly hindering its future. SegWit and LN cannot be replacements for a HF, Core knows that, but they still want to use them to replace a HF solution. Bitcoin is not the only cryptocurrency out there. No user, no value.
yangzi666
Still, no matter what solution, if we have 2 chains and 2 Bitcoins, there will be chaos esp. for newbies. Miners and exchanges will take side and cause even greater chaos. Attention ppl: those were bashing Bitcoin with short positions all day long are now also in favor of THAT solution! Newton had it: I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people! HF is not a good solution at this moment. No matter which one, there must be no risk of forking into 2 chains---that qualifies an option on the table.
wz
SegWit and LN are not the replacement of a HF. Core has their own interests. You ostrich ppl just keep your heads in the sand, the risks won’t go away.
yangzi666 reply wz
1)I am no osrich. I will not be speaking here if I had my head in the sand, esp. at the risks of your bashings. 2)I oppose the risks of Bitcoin forking into 2 coins: you need to live longer to have the experience of humanity. 3)Seriously suggest you guys use some mild words, don’t be so dramatic. Just get your opinions clear no matter what you are proposing. Don’t just attack other ppl and their solutions. And plz don’t use harsh words. I believe we miners have wisdom. Given time, just wait and see the chart.
睿思通-专注比特币交易平台开发
Only miners, who invested millions-worth of personal wealth, the sunk cost, cannot leave like a bitcoiner, thus can be qualified as the Bitcoin’s safe guards.
nodouble
Scaling is what all users want. We just have different opinions on the solution we choose. It’s hard to judge Core’s manipulation, but they do oppose a simple direct scaling. They broke the deal with pools and manipulated the public opinion. You do see these as facts. You know about IT and finance, and probably with your butt on finance. You earn monopoly profits that others cannot touch. Bitcoin is the genius, the genesis of this sick market. Core’s segwit and LN are in fact copying financial sector’s monopoly nature to Bitcoin, and with an overly engineered tech threshold to solidify the position of interest groups like Blockstream. The scaling of the main chain, a market that naturally embraces users, will bring the disillusionment of LN, a market naturally forcing users. The conflict of opinions is in fact the fight of power of at a certain level. For Bitcoin, it’s Satoshi’s brilliant design and judgment that has it: we let the miners decide. This is also most reasonable in reality. Like you said, should we realize it, we are all happy.
idgui.com
1) I’m pro segwit and LN, segwit solves a lot of historical problems and improves efficiency; LN provides greater room for timely confirmations and high frequency tx. [reply] good, welcome for your choice on segwit+LN. It’s good improvement for the development of the ecosystem. Segwit has a good structure for app developments. LN can realized second-level confirmation and low tx fee that everyone wants.
2) Miners being trust-worthy don’t mean all miners can tell the future. Miners are trust-worthy because they see profits. They analyze the interests of all parties. Their behavioral pattern is predictable. [reply] There are short-term interests and long-term interests. Not all miners are limited to those before their eyes or those in their dreams. Only when interests short-term and long-term are consistent can they be predicted. But you cannot do that now. Also, different miners have different standards of judgement.
3) ETH HFed many times, not produced a forked chain only once, why? Because this very HF violates the basic principle of cryptocurrency: immutability of blockchain. That’s why ppl reject ETH and would welcome ETC. Then you have trades and markets and price and miners. Previously loyal miners can turn. That’s why I say Chandler’s statement was irrational. Just don’t talk about loyalty and friendship when it comes to cryptos, just talk about interests. [reply] There’re active and forced HFs. We had one in our history. Along with the later HFs of ETH, they are all bug-fixes that serves only good. But the in the ETH/ETC case, the HF was to find the stolen coins, not for a bug fix: an active HF. Active HF has great potential for splitting the ecosystem, and forced ones are safe. HF scaling is apparently an active HF. Blocksize limit is not an imperative bug fix target; and HF scaling is not necessarily good for everyone, at least it raise the bar to run a full node.
4) Landscape of interests: I’m saying the interests and decision-making patterns of all parties in the system (miners, corps, users, investors, devs) stay the same, not that all interests should remain the same. HF scaling produces no change to the original running mechanism, so the landscape does not change. Even if ETH forked into 2, their interests are in the same old landscape and an Alt relationship between each other. [reply] You are not aware of the dangers and harms of a split ecosystem. You should read some other articles first. A split is not just about simply see another Alt, it’s overwhelming.
END
Thanks for our translator David.
submitted by BitKan to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Continue:Chinese Comments for《Why against SegWit and Core? Jiang Zhuo’er, who invested millions in mining, gives his answers.》

Yesterday,The article “Why against SegWit and Core? Jiang Zhuo’er, who invested millions in mining, gives his answers.” caused a lot debates here. For the further communication between China and west, I’ll conclude some informations about the article, then translate some of the Chinese comments & opinions on this article.
BitKan is a famous platform bases on China, we offer all the information in crypto currency industry, including market data, all news resources in the world, price monitor, P2P bitcoins exchange,etc. BitKan is available in multilingual versions and you can try it out and also join the heated discussion here:BITKAN
BItKan just here to offer an exchange of information. We are not Jiang Zhuo'er or in any way associated with him.
Here is the original article(Chinese Version): https://bitkan.com/news/topic/25747 Here is the original article(English Version): https://bitkan.com/news/topic/25778 Here is the discussion on reddit/bitcoin: https://np.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/5egroc/why_against_segwit_and_core_jiang_zhuoer_who/ Here is the discussion on reddit/btc: https://www.reddit.com/btc/comments/5eh2cc/why_against_segwit_and_core_jiang_zhuoer_who/
Let’s see what Chinese comments under the article (post on BitKan Chinese news page):
Against
独行 If the writer does not want to see him nailed up on the pillar of humiliation, go learn some economics, plow through Satoshi’s whitepaper again esp. the economic logics in it. Also the writer needs to learn coding so as to avoid a mentality of a liberal art student. TBH your article is getting dramatic. 1. 1) Core never said the block size will stay at 1 MB, SegWit is a robust strategy at this moment. 2. 2) Your so-called HK consensus is nothing but a paper with seals from a few pools, a one-sided opinion. It’s not consensus. 3. 3) What an interesting conspiracy theory, you sound like the rest of the world is against China. How sick is that? Bitcoin has no national boundaries.
lxq990061 Back in 1840 in San Francisco, miners got rich with gold. But many more joined the game later on and with more ppl leaving the west empty-handed. How tragic. This is history, just like the one happening with Bitcoin. It was the pubs and inns opened near the gold mines earned real money: like the platforms today. Devs at Core are just like the merchants back in the day sipping their tea and trash-talking. But Core is indeed stupid: an 8-year long decentralized system requires support from a 95%? Some serious shit in their head.
讨厌装逼犯 You guys trash talk everyday non-stop...be quiet! This kind of argument cannot convince anyone. Harsh words+personall attacks just make it more chaotic. Politics...parties...freedom...conspiracy: disgusting. And this kind of article? Who you can convince? This is not the day 1 of the debate. True decision makers already have it in their mind. You ordinary ppl can change nothing even if you are convinced. My guess is whoever writes this kind of story must be someone who enjoys being worshiped by ppl on top of the ranks of “revolution”. You just like to quench your own thirst for fame. Worst case has nothing to do with tech, it’s a match for computation power, capital and strength. System set that C.power decides so let it be. Bitcoin will take on its due course no matter what. The disgusting part is the incitation, the manipulation of ppl’s emotions, and cap everything “a matter of revolution”. We Chinese ppl know this too well. Scaling is no longer about tech, but winning. Is it meaningful? The shame is not with the devs, they (inl. Core and BU) contributed their wisdom and labor. The real shame is with you talkers who humiliate ppl. You are so good, why not show me your money? Bitcoin is a merely 10B system, go buy it. If you cannot, just don’t trash talk.
idgui.com 1) lots of companies and apps are waiting for segwit, and OP is not against segwit, then https://bitcoincore.org/en/segwit_adoption/ why not implement it in the easiest way? SF is quite close , as long as enough miners support. HF egwit delivers community splitting risks. 2) LN can be decentralized enough should there be enough LN nodes. It won’t be concentrated on a handful of nodes. We can implement some limits on the main chain if we see an inclination toward centralization, such as higher tx fee for big nodes to limit big centralized LN node. 3) Main chain tx fee won’t be ridiculously high. If it does, miners get RICH, no? now we have 4% in tx fee, raise by 25 times you get more reward from it than the block reward. Then it’s acceptable even now, let alone future. Big amount tx are few. Small amount can be offchain, on LN or on sidechains. 4) SegWit has been thoroughly tests, and it’s a SF, compatible to previous nodes. There won’t be a major issue. Any code has risks, can you call BU risk-free? It depends on the level of risk. Segwit SF is acceptable, at most rolling back to 0.13.0, and segwit can increase little by little, not a sudden change. BU’s HF is different, with risks of splitting the entire ecosystem. 5) Miners have freedom of voting, but do consider the interests at large. You must represent the interests of the entire ecosystem, at least try to. We need decentralized nodes and unified ecosystem. SF segwit needs to be activated under consensus, and we can wait. HF needs even greater consensus or we risk losing it all. If we cannot have enough consensus for either HF or SF segwit, then we should let the SF segwit happen, since it has no risks of destruction.
Maybe I wrote it in bad order, let me edit it in the future. Don’t jump to conclusion OP. Segwit should be activated in the future.
Support
gjw Core knows nothing about the spirit of contract. They ignore their public ann. a few months ago. A direct scaling is the simplest and most effective way of solving our urgent problem. Why roll out this thing that requires long-time testing? To have a worldwide success for Bitcoin, you need to provide ppl with access at low costs. It’s just like Internet. Core either has a vicious intention or has no faith in Bitcoin. If one day Bitcoin is being used by 9 digits of ppl, the main chain block size cannot be enough even at 100 MB. Micro payment still needs to go through something like LN. What’s the meaning of keeping the block size at 1MB? 7 years ago the block size was set at 1MB, what’s the hardware like 7 years ago? What the growth of bandwidth and storage in 7 years? 10 years or 20 years from now? The main battlefield of Bitcoin is in China. We Chinese ppl should not be satisfied with mining a few coins or gamble on a few exchanges. Take the responsibility and obligation of contribution. But, words are so much cheaper than codes. We need advanced devs for the main battlefield.
changyong I appreciate Jiang Zhuo’er’s main points, they coincide with my opinions on the Chengdu blockchain conference: 1. scaling, segwit and LN should all be implemented. 2.it is highly wrong to make the main chain a settlement network 3. LN and the main chain are for different purposes and should not be inter-placeable. 4. main chain jam is driving towards LN Matthew Effect and monopolies. 5. miner decision is most rational and trust-worthy 6. tech and propaganda monopolies are endangering the whole system 7. SF increases long-term systemic debt and risks
A supplementary 8 points 1. blocksize cannot meet with the market demand for a long time---this is no less significant of a tech loophole. So a HF is a worthy action. 2. HF is an important instrument for Bitcoin to metabolize. Demonizing HF is suicidal. 3. The lack of incentives for devs and the centralization of tech are the paramount systemic risks at this moment 4. BU is a good start for competition, which will eliminate tech centralization. 5. HF scaling will not change the current landscape of profits and power, turning the main chain into a settlement network will. The latter carries great risks of Bitcoin failure. 6. Demonizing HF is a coverup for the changes and risks associated with the settlement network roadmap. 7. Democracy of Bitcoin requires ration, not loyalty and passion from the Bitcoiners, else, we are en route dictatorship. 8. For the sake of the wealth and energy you put into this, plz resort to reason, not blind worshipping and personal attacks.
myx If you can compete with confidence, do compete under the same level of consensus. Bitcoin is the flapship of cryptos. An easy HF and an influential forked chain in the aftermath can be catastrophic. Miners can benefit in the short run after the spilitting. But in the long run, we all lose. A lowered threshold in anticipation of an easier fork is much worse than staying put. Based on Boss Jiang’s statement, 95% consensus can produce a 5% forked chain...then there will always be minority miners forking. In the end, the recognition of Bitcoin comes from users. Self-important forks by some miners are nothing but Alts. We have enough alts, no? So, 95%+ consensus is the only way to maintain unification. A coin without support from most of the users is an alt! Miners do get to decide, but the ultimate right is with the users’ recognition! If a 95%+ consensus is with a solution, then the rest minority do not matter. So, a solution without a high degree of consensus in a way is splitting the ecosystem. If BU dares not to bring up a 95% threshold, and in your own words, if a 51% HF is enough for a HF...you will end up splitting the ecosystem! Boss Jiang is a miner, and he feels he’s investing bigly, and he gets to decide. But in fact you are just for profit, not some Samaritan. Miners are just making profits on the most-recognized coin. Nothing to do with ethics. But a fair competition, by your own words, must be on the same criteria. Just like the 270 electoral votes in US presidential election. A common threshold. So, if BU wants to compete with segwit, do so under the same level of consensus. Any solution under a 95% consensus is just trolling for your own cowardice!
indexindex The scaling debate involves 1)scaling for Bitcoin’s future and 2)breaking dev monopoly. Dev is the easiest part to control than hashing powers and users, literally the weakest part in the decentralization course of Bitcon. Spend 7 or 8 digits of USD on core devs, then you can control a multi-billion level product...that’s a good bargin for numerous capitals. Devs must realize that they can be abandoned should they do harm to Bitcoin in exchange of their own interests. Not just Core, but every dev team should understand this. BS’ investment must go burn, so as to make it a good example for future players.
Others
Tips: ID name “sfire” is the writer Jiang Zhuoer.
bikanyong to sfire Hi Jiang I got 2 questions for you: 1. 1) apart from using high tx fee to chase tx to the LN, what’s the highlight of LN per se that draws tx? 2. 2) You mentioned LN will become a giant-dominated market based on Matthew Effect. Is our main chain facing the same risks?
sfire to bikanyong Yes. LN is a secondary network with no need to broadcast network-wide. So LN has more frequent tx than the main chain. Small amount fast payment can be allowed. There is a price for not broadcasting network-wide: serious centralization risks (as seen in the article). So it can only be used for auxiliary purposes, but not as a foundation. The main chain is free from this risk becoz all miners on the main chain are equal. Gov may shut down 99% of the miners while the remaining 1% could still be handling tx. LN differentiates nodes with big ones and small ones. In the end, the big ones may end up huge and be banned by the gov. With the remaining allowed un-compliant small nodes, you cannot (very possibly) find a route of transfer in the LN, causing you failures in transfers.
bikanyongto sfire You mean: Nodes on the main chain are equal, while in the LN, big nodes are more powerful than the small ones. Or put it another way: the nodes on the current main chain are inter-dependent, while they could get competitive against each other on the LN.---is it ok to put it like this?
sfire to bikanyong It’s not that big nodes on the LN have more power, but connects more users. E.g. many ppl may, for the sake of their rate and service, connect to a giant “Coin-Pay or Coin-Pal” kind of node. If they want to transfer to users on another node called “Coin-Wechat”, they have to go through a route provided by “Coin-Pal”. Then, the giant node “Coin-Pal” bans you, leaving you in de facto ban from transfers to most ppl on the LN.
kok99999 to bikanyong LN changes the topology of the network, and changes the whole game.
独行 Just becoz you need to enlarge the userbase, you need to scale up? It’s hilarious. The transfer of tx requires cost. No matter how wide is the highway, you don’t charge ppl, you will have a heave traffic. Via the market’s hand, only big amount tx are allowed on the chain---this does not affect the liquidity of onchain assets.
sfire to 独行 You can go offer some advice to the gov and ask them not to build up our infrastructure, since it’s so costy. Just charge ppl money, how convenient is that? Only luxury cars are allowed on the road....this does not affect the vitality of the city.
wz to 独行 What you are saying is not market’s hand. Leaving ppl with no choice is a market behavior? Free competition is the market’s hand.
无名 to 独行 No hard facts other than trashing ppl...no reasoning...these resemble your Core masters.
BTC专业工 I just wanna say: Hail to Multi-Party system! One-Party Dictatorship is doomed.
mellowtone Support miners, support PoW and computational-power-consensus is the real consensus.
pyjx306 If tx fee goes up, I will quit.
savage Since Core is so determined to castrate the main chain and revolution miners out, why did they set the 95% threshold? Core has no computation power, and they are so confident that miners will load their heads with enough shit and support Core?
sfire It’s just a routine to set the 95% threshold for SF. If Core does not use the figure, the anti-Core voice will only grow, furthering their success rate down.
amo1998 95% could be of more complicated reasons. I think BS should have taken into consideration that they control at least 5% of the C.power. (S pool and BTCC pool). If I were BS, I’d have a contingency plan for worst-case scenario. Even 95% means we fail, we BS will not allow for a HF. We can also bash you from a moral high ground and accuse the onchain scailing side.
caitong I cannot tell which one is better, HF first or SegWit first...both seemed to be practical and dangerous. But both sides have their own political agenda---that’s for sure. We avg. Joes prefer that, no matter what solution taken or risks what come along, just march on. We cannot stay here and die.
wz No development=you will be taken by someone else. The network jam is significantly hindering its future. SegWit and LN cannot be replacements for a HF, Core knows that, but they still want to use them to replace a HF solution. Bitcoin is not the only cryptocurrency out there. No user, no value.
yangzi666 Still, no matter what solution, if we have 2 chains and 2 Bitcoins, there will be chaos esp. for newbies. Miners and exchanges will take side and cause even greater chaos. Attention ppl: those were bashing Bitcoin with short positions all day long are now also in favor of THAT solution! Newton had it: I can calculate the motion of heavenly bodies, but not the madness of people! HF is not a good solution at this moment. No matter which one, there must be no risk of forking into 2 chains---that qualifies an option on the table.
wz SegWit and LN are not the replacement of a HF. Core has their own interests. You ostrich ppl just keep your heads in the sand, the risks won’t go away.
yangzi666 reply wz 1)I am no osrich. I will not be speaking here if I had my head in the sand, esp. at the risks of your bashings. 2)I oppose the risks of Bitcoin forking into 2 coins: you need to live longer to have the experience of humanity. 3)Seriously suggest you guys use some mild words, don’t be so dramatic. Just get your opinions clear no matter what you are proposing. Don’t just attack other ppl and their solutions. And plz don’t use harsh words. I believe we miners have wisdom. Given time, just wait and see the chart.
睿思通-专注比特币交易平台开发 Only miners, who invested millions-worth of personal wealth, the sunk cost, cannot leave like a bitcoiner, thus can be qualified as the Bitcoin’s safe guards.
nodouble Scaling is what all users want. We just have different opinions on the solution we choose. It’s hard to judge Core’s manipulation, but they do oppose a simple direct scaling. They broke the deal with pools and manipulated the public opinion. You do see these as facts. You know about IT and finance, and probably with your butt on finance. You earn monopoly profits that others cannot touch. Bitcoin is the genius, the genesis of this sick market. Core’s segwit and LN are in fact copying financial sector’s monopoly nature to Bitcoin, and with an overly engineered tech threshold to solidify the position of interest groups like Blockstream. The scaling of the main chain, a market that naturally embraces users, will bring the disillusionment of LN, a market naturally forcing users. The conflict of opinions is in fact the fight of power of at a certain level. For Bitcoin, it’s Satoshi’s brilliant design and judgment that has it: we let the miners decide. This is also most reasonable in reality. Like you said, should we realize it, we are all happy.
idgui.com 1) I’m pro segwit and LN, segwit solves a lot of historical problems and improves efficiency; LN provides greater room for timely confirmations and high frequency tx. [reply] good, welcome for your choice on segwit+LN. It’s good improvement for the development of the ecosystem. Segwit has a good structure for app developments. LN can realized second-level confirmation and low tx fee that everyone wants.
2) Miners being trust-worthy don’t mean all miners can tell the future. Miners are trust-worthy because they see profits. They analyze the interests of all parties. Their behavioral pattern is predictable. [reply] There are short-term interests and long-term interests. Not all miners are limited to those before their eyes or those in their dreams. Only when interests short-term and long-term are consistent can they be predicted. But you cannot do that now. Also, different miners have different standards of judgement.
3) ETH HFed many times, not produced a forked chain only once, why? Because this very HF violates the basic principle of cryptocurrency: immutability of blockchain. That’s why ppl reject ETH and would welcome ETC. Then you have trades and markets and price and miners. Previously loyal miners can turn. That’s why I say Chandler’s statement was irrational. Just don’t talk about loyalty and friendship when it comes to cryptos, just talk about interests. [reply] There’re active and forced HFs. We had one in our history. Along with the later HFs of ETH, they are all bug-fixes that serves only good. But the in the ETH/ETC case, the HF was to find the stolen coins, not for a bug fix: an active HF. Active HF has great potential for splitting the ecosystem, and forced ones are safe. HF scaling is apparently an active HF. Blocksize limit is not an imperative bug fix target; and HF scaling is not necessarily good for everyone, at least it raise the bar to run a full node.
4) Landscape of interests: I’m saying the interests and decision-making patterns of all parties in the system (miners, corps, users, investors, devs) stay the same, not that all interests should remain the same. HF scaling produces no change to the original running mechanism, so the landscape does not change. Even if ETH forked into 2, their interests are in the same old landscape and an Alt relationship between each other. [reply] You are not aware of the dangers and harms of a split ecosystem. You should read some other articles first. A split is not just about simply see another Alt, it’s overwhelming.
END
Thanks for our translator David.
submitted by BitKan to btc [link] [comments]

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