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Current Bitcoin Carbon Emissions. The numbers. Can we discuss please?

I received a PM from a redditor about a old comment. His PM reads -
So back 10 months ago I posted this comment and you responded with the most reasoned response about the entire Bitcoin network emitting less carbon than a single 747. It made me feel much better about Bitcoin. It also confused me this past few weeks with people posting stories stating that Bitcoin will soon use nearly 0.1% of the world's energy and already consumes more power than every single solar panel in the entire world produces. Those two don't really square, so I looked back and the article you reference was from 2014. I'm curious if you've reevaluated your stance on bitcoin or perhaps have some insight that the current hysteria is just overblown?
Since I've spent the time doing some napkin math (I could be horribly wrong on this, someone please correct me!), I thought I should make this post public for everone to evaulate my maths and my reasoning.
First, I would just redirect to AA's great clip on the subject -
As for re-evaluating my position, yes, constantly. Im going to do this really quickly, so unsure of accuracy, but should give a rough ball park.
Says its about 761 tons for a 747 to fly 24 hrs.
Claims 1 watt per 1 second gigahash. Comes out to 343 mW per second. Thats 1234800 mW per hour, which equals 29635200 mWh for 24 hrs. The formula used to calculate megawatt-hours is Megawatt hours (MWh) = Megawatts (MW) x Hours (h). In this case, I've used 24 hours since we are comparing to 24 hours of a 747 flying, so 24 MWh. So currently btc mining has a rate of 1,234,800 per MWh.
Putting 29635200000 (previous mWh * 1000 for kWh) into this government calculator will give you caron comparisons. That calculator claims an equivilent of 2,481,717,074 gallons of gas consumed. Yes, thats nearly 2.5 billion.
To make this comparison more comprehensible....
In 2017, about 143.85 billion gallons (or about 3.40 billion barrels1) of finished motor gasoline were consumed2 in the United States, a daily average of about 391.40 million gallons (or about 9.32 million barrels per day).
This would be equivilent of 6.33 days of gasoline usage in the USA for a single day of mining.
So go go back to our airplane analogy, the carbon calculator says that many mW = 22,055,020 metric tons of carbon emitted.
I do recall looking into the airplane thing back when we were discussing it, and I remember looking at the numbers. Frankly, its impossible to believe those were accurate and im sorry. I should have double checked everything.
According to -
We had around "5EHash" in august of 2017, when that comment was made. We are now at 31EHash, over a 6x fold since that comment was made.
Now that we have the numbers out of the way, some things to consider...
These estimates are based upon the USA's carbon calculators which measures average carbon output based on the varying technologies in the US. According to the wiki the US only is around 12% (in 2016) for renewable energy.
So in general, our energy is pretty damn dirty and we put out a lot more carbon than we sequester.
In that AA video, he talks about the geolocation arbitrage used by miners. This makes a lot of sense. If you are going to invest 50-500 million into a mining operation, are you going to do it in a area where it costs 12 cents per hour (US average), or where it costs 3-4 cents per kwH? See -
Obviously you are going to massively reduce your operational cost as that is what will lead your investment to become profitable.
Fortunately for us, and the world, many of these arbitrage opportunities are in hydroelectric and geothermal energy areas. These plants are designed to be future proofed, so enterprising mining congolmerates will move to areas where they can secure very cheap energy prices. When these companies are currently using 5-15 GwH for their cities, with 50 GwH capacity, they will happily sell their extra capacity to the mining operation since that is a very favorable economic incentive to all parties.
Another factor to consider is that for every single new ASIC design, they are becoming more energy efficient. So even though the hashrate is jumping, I would say the overall energy used by the network will plateau, if it has not already done so. With GMO and other giants like Samsung entering the mining design fray, this will only speed up energy efficiency.
None of this is intended to be a sidestepping of the facts - Clearly the bitcoin network uses a lot of energy. And when you have less regulated countries (china, India), it presents opportunities for locals to setup mining operations inside their locality, which then uses dirty energy, increasing carbon outputs.
The amount of carbon emissions per day (22,055,020 metric tons) that is above is obviously not very accurate when you account for these arbitrage opportunties. We know for a fact many of the largest mining colo's are situated near hydroelectric and Geothermal energy plants, which means that they are practically zero carbon emissions. Since we do not know the location of every miner, due to the decentralized unregulated nature of bitcoin, it is impossible to calculate how much of a reduction of tons of carbon we will get for that calculation.
But even if we are generous, and say 50% of all mining is done on renewables, that still leaves 11 million tons of carbon per day, a pretty staggering amount.
There is also much to hope for with scientists claiming we can be 100% renewable energy across the entire planet. Such as scientists setting to prove through empiracle data that it is feasible to convert the entire planet to 100% renewables. Though it is probably not realistic that this will happen quickly, or even at all. To give perspective, CFC's have been banned for decades and thought not in use for over a decade, yet recent data has shown levels are increasing. There will always be industry willing to destroy the world in the future for short term profit now.
We should also weigh the costs and benefits of this massive network. If bitcoin becomes adopted across the world as a currency, which if you look at places like Japan, it clearly is, then this will enable literal billions of people who are currently unbanked to join into the global financial ecosystem.
The personal financial soverignty that bitcoin brings is of incalcuable value. Whether the carbon emissions are worth these trade offs is a philosophical question that probably does not have an right or wrong answer.
Then we must also evaluate the carbon impact that the bitcoin network would have if cryptocurrencies were to replace traditional financial networks. There are some good analysis on the carbon footprint of banks, and bitcoin mining, coindesk has done several articles, see -
If we are properly to examine the impact that cryptocurrency carbon emissions have on society, then we should also examine the reduction of carbon that cryptocurrency networks will have upon the banking sector.
This site Claims AC & Heating results in 47.7 % of the entire USA's electricity usage. This example is just to present a understanding of how much energy these systems use.
How many Banks are there around the world that have their AC on 24/7? I can imagine just that number alone would lead to a staggering level of CO2 emissions. The coindesk article claims 591k bank branches around the world. The above aritcle claims 3.5k watts for a single central air unit. I had a family member that used to run a A/C business and I've been on top of many businesses. A bank will likely have several of those units to keep the place cool, I would estimate between 2-10 depending upon size.
In more good news, Bank branches are declining, and cryptocurrencies will only accelerate this. Lets hope that bitcoin is the amazon of retail brick and mortor closures.
In conclusion, there is a valid and rational concern as to the amount of power that the bitcoin network brings. And instead of being dismissive, we should recognize the incredible rate at which the bitcoin network is growing on an annual basis. From 4.3EHash to 31EHash over the last year, that is about a 8x fold increase.
Since we can assume that the majority of hashpower is coming online in the last year is likely newer models, these units should be at the current efficiencies. The estimates above should be roughly accurate based on this information.
This information will only be used by politicians and media congolmerates to spin a very bad negative impression of the bitcoin network. And you know what? Maybe they are right. Maybe bitcoin is growing into a massive CO2 producing beast that outweighs the benefits that it brings to society.
But how can we reach a consensus on this issue unless we, the hardcore bitcoiners and techophiles, bring the numbers into sunlight and discuss?
submitted by Cryptolution to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Of Wolves and Weasels - Day 325 - My 1 DOGE = 1 DOGE moment

Hey all, GoodShibe here!
So, how was your Black Friday? Did you snag many Shibe deals? Merchants, how did you make out? Was there any real uptick in sales?
There was an interesting post on /Bitcoin yesterday showing the difference that a year had made - a screenshot of the sub back when a Bitcoin was worth $1000 as a contrast to how the sub seemed now. One of the comments mentioned how the reaction this year seemed much more subdued and another even brought up Dogecoin directly and how their reaction was similar to when our price collapsed.
One of the important bits to keep in mind is that what’s happening to DOGE right now isn’t just happening to DOGE. Everyone is feeling the pinch -- Bitcoin moreso because their sub is constantly being brigaded by people who keep on slagging them and their efforts (sort of like we were in the run-up to us going AuxPoW).
With that said, we’re in an interesting position because we actually have one of the largest potentials to better our current situation. Bitcoin is already top dog, they’re on every major exchange. Moving 'forward' involves crossing over into full-blown USD Stock Exchanges.
The good news here, for us, is that considering our 3rd/4th place position in the cryptosphere, we actually have quite a bit of room to run… if we can get up and start running.
Which is why I’m taking time today to highlight an important project that I think every Shibe should get behind:
DogeHustle has created in an attempt to gain 808 signatures and petition the massive exchange OkCoin to start listing/ trading Dogecoin.
Right now they’ve got 225 signatures out of the 808 that they wanted but they clearly need not only our signatures, but our overwhelming support.
One of the key points that DogeHustle has made is that right now, because our volumes are so low, people can move the entire Dogecoin market with a few thousand dollars. That, of course, is not at all healthy and so the more people we can have actively taking part in trading Dogecoin the more resilient our valuations will be.
The reality that we’re facing is that people who don’t have a whole lot of crypto right now aren’t really a fan of parting with it when valuations, across the board, are so low. And with the future seemingly uncertain, people are holding back from buying in even though prices are low.
So what we end up with is this feeling that we're stuck in a holding pattern, the idea that we should just hold our crypto until someone else spends it or does the work necessary to bring the coin's valuation up again. Once it's back up, then it’ll be okay and we’ll be fine to start spending again.
It's like an awkward high school dance where everyone’s lined up against the wall, unsure of who’s going to be the first one to jump in.
Obviously it’s not THAT bad… but even in the conversations I’ve been having, there’s that sense of trepidation.
That worry of loss.
So, how do we combat that?
One of the most fantastic experiences I had recently came when I was doing some shopping at and I happened to click on the currency converter… and noticed that the currency could be set directly to DOGE.
So I did.
And you know what? I experienced a true, solid, 1 DOGE = 1 DOGE moment.
What I mean by that is that, for that entire shopping experience, I looked at the prices and I was considering if that gift pack of seeds was really worth 20k-ish DOGE to me. I considered each item and weighed it against how much DOGE I was willing to part with.
One of the things that I think has been harming our DOGEconomy has, essentially, been a massive case of 'Sticker Shock'. Doing all of the calculations in our head in USD or GBP or Euros and then converting that to DOGE and going 'WTF?!?' and freaking out at how much DOGE that's going to cost us.
By doing it the other way around, by seeing ONLY the DOGE price, not the USD price, I knew how much DOGE I was spending every step of the way and by the time I was done making my purchase… I was okay with it.
Only after I made my purchase did I stop and go ‘oh, how much was that in USD’? and then go back to check. And I was still okay with it.
So… how can we integrate this better?
What if a business could set it so that if a customer's entry page was, say, they AUTOMATICALLY displayed all prices in DOGE?
You come from /Bitcoin? Everything’s in Bitcoin.
/Litecoin? Everything’s in Litecoin.
And you do that for all of the common pages (bitcointalk, litecointalk,, etc) that you can think of.
It’s small, subtle things like this that allow the consumer to evaluate, for themselves, what something is worth to them. How much of their coins they’re willing to part with.
And in that experience, that’s where our DOGEconomy has the potential to truly spread its roots and dig deep.
By seeing prices ONLY in DOGE or BTC or LTC we can decide for ourselves what’s fair to us. We can make our peace with the process and not only feel positive, but confident in the whole experience.
Confidence is exactly what we need, my friends. And one of the surest, simplest ways to gain it is to shed the USD unless we specifically go looking for it.
Merchants, please, take the time to know your audience. Figure out where we’re coming from, anticipate us, prepare for us and in doing so you help us to treat our cryptos like the currency that they are instead of a stand-in for USD.
And, if you do so, I suspect you will see not only MORE sales but more confidence from the sales you do make.
What do you think?
Is it worth a shot?
It's 8:01AM EST and we've found 96.16% of our initial 100 Billion DOGEs - only 3.84% remains until we reach our soft cap! Our Global Hashrate is down from ~1315 to ~1214 Gigahashes per second and our Difficulty is up from ~19287 to ~22083!
As always, I appreciate your support!
submitted by GoodShibe to dogecoin [link] [comments]

Chill everyone, let's talk bitcoin internals, fundamentals and what it means for price.

So I've been watching bitcoin for a couple weeks, and i got a bit of my own dough into it.
Of recent everybody seems obsessed with the vast accumulation of wealth in the hands of few, and the hordes of panicky upstarts trying to get in, who might get screwed by falling prices (for instance see this lovely post
Now I'm not saying that the doomsday scenario the prophets are peddling is impossible. But it's about as possible as the wonderland prophets who're hoping for a 100'0000% return.
On a related note, yeah some trojan started targeting wallet.dat, surprise surprise. Incidentally, that the same machine you're making VISA payments from and operate your e-banking? You worried about that too? Not? Well I don't see VISA shares falling every time somebody infects himself with a keylogger.
So I thought a fair bit about where prices are going to go, and why, and I asked a lot of people and talked this over, and after this, a few things remain that give some direction.
A price of a security (like bitcoins, or gold, stocks, fiat money etc.) is ultimately determined by supply and demand. If you understand supply and demand, you understand prices.
So an important consideration is who's bidding for bitcoins, and who's asking for a price to sell them, and what prices to these parties consider reasonable.
Buyers (bid)
This is a diverse group of people, it may include people who use the small but fledgling bitcoin economy to buy coins to pay other people in them. But by far and large, it's probably a speculation driven market, people buy bitcoins in the hopes the value will rise.
The psychology speculative buying ends up being about a zero-sum game. Somebody buys, somebody sells, the overall activity neither adds or removes coins from the market, and hence when viewed over long periods (months/years) this activity is just white-noise.
This defines the demand, and demand rises and falls with bitcoin popularity and confidence. Some week confidence may be low, some it may be high.
Sellers (ask)
This roughly falls into two camps. The speculative sellers and the miners.
Speculative selling (that is sells of coins bought earlier) is the other half of the zero-sum game, it neither adds or removes coins overall, and is hence just white noise.
Freshly minted coins (by miners) which enter the market are the real driver of supply.
The limited and small constant supply myth
Every 10 minutes 50 new bitcoins are found. That is a fact, and if it strays from that, the difficulty adjusts to keep it there. If you look at it purely from the point of view of scarcity, this would seem a small (but nearly ignorable) inflationary influence.
This however would be an over-simplification. There are substantial amounts of mined coins held by people who've been mining them for the better part of a year. They've been hoarding these coins, and commonly I'd refer to this group as bitcoinionaires. Their actually supply capacity vastly exceeds the day to day supply of fresh coins.
Since these stockpiles are the real driver of the supply, it's important to understand when the miners/bitcoinonaires will sell and when they will not.
Mining economics
The mined bitcoins where obtained by the activity you call mining. This is neither an easy nor free way to get coins. It takes energy, room, time to setup, etc. There are constant costs attached to this (paying rent and electricity) as well as recoverable costs (buying hardware to do it) and unquantifiable costs (work rendered to make it all happen).
You can think of mining as a business that has expenses and profits. In order for that business to work, the constant expenses must be covered, the recoverable expenses must be recoverable, and the work invested must be repaid.
This all leads to a fairly straightforward calculation which goes something like this: You pay around 1000$ for one 1gh/s (one gigahash per second) in hardware. Running that hardware you pay about 2-3$/day/gh in energy. If you factor in rent of some or another form, you probably pay between 1-5$/day/gh in rent. If you also factor in resale value decay of the hardware you bought, you immediately lose about 20% upon buying the hardware, and around 30%/year.
As a business you probably plan to run your miner for more then half a year, so about 50% of the hardware cost has to be recovered in a reasonable time-frame, say 3 months. Which means there's a hardware recovery calculation that you should do that factors in at about 2$/day/gh
If you sum that all up, you get a running cost of mining that is around 5-10$/day/gh.
One gigahash will get you about 1.2btc/day at current difficulty, which is at current prices somewhere around 17-20$.
It is fairly obvious that your expenses need to be lower then your profits. If they are not, what happens?
You may have heard about difficulty, in essence it is a constant value (for 2 weeks) that aims to keep the rate of fresh coins at about 50coins/10minutes. Obviously, the more difficult it gets, the less coins 1 gh/s will mint, and the more difficult the economy of a mining business becomes.
miner psychology
Since you can't simply acquire and sell hardware capacity on a dime (it takes weeks and months to do it), and since you will need months to recover your boot costs, miner selling is out of necessity a long-term affair.
So what can a miner do when the price of btcs falls below their operational cost?
bitcoinionaire psychology
If prices go down and you sit on a big pile of coins, you lose wealth. Nobody likes loosing wealth, I don't like it, you don't like it, the bitcoinionaires don't like it.
In order to become a bitcoinionaire you need to be a hoarder. If you wouldn't hoard, you wouldn't have tens of thousands of bitcoins. A hoarder essentially never likes letting go of his stash. You get rid of as little of your stash as possible to keep your risk and costs in a reasonable balance. Which means, these fat-cats depicted in the picture above, they didn't sell you all they had, not even a fraction. They sold you just about as much as they where personally willing to sacrifice. This means that they're still having the majority of their wealth in the game, and they absolutely do not want to see that devalued to zero.
I've talked to a bunch of these very decent folks, and their sentiment is that they're in for the long haul. True they'll sell "big" positions occasionally, but they keep the majority of their assets stashed away.
If you're expecting the miners/bitcoinionaires to suddenly explode with supply at lowering prices, you're most likely mistaken.
the difficulty/price correlation
For the reasons outlined above, there's a very simple correlation. If prices go down and difficulty goes up, by far and large supply dries out.
However lower prices drive demand (in bitcoin volume) up, because as the price goes down, the buying power (in $/btc) of the would-be buyers increases.
And if the market self-balancing fails, then the difficulty adjust will step in once enough miners have given up.
In sum these dynamics lead to deflation. Since difficulty and hardware turnover moves at a much slower pace then prices, prices are far more likely to adjust to difficulty then the other way around in the long term.
What does all of this mean?
Keep a cool head, and don't let the market fool you. Trust your fundamentals, technicals and sentiment analysis, and tightly control your risk only to what you personally can afford to lose.
If you buy in a mania or sell in a panic (we've see both the past 2 weeks), you're probably going to lose (or diminish your profits).
Study bitcoin and what drives it carefully and come to your own conclusion. Adjust your strategy carefully and maybe, one day a couple years from now, you can be a bitcoinionaire. If not, life is full of other opportunities, so just pick yourself up and try the next.
So chill everyone, and have a good time :)
submitted by pyalot to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

bitcoin mining calculator Bitcoin Calculator - Cryptocurrency Converter for Android Where Bitcoin Is Accepted How is the price of Bitcoin calculated? A primer on supply and demand  Learn with Luno Does Bitcoin Exist

The Bitcoin price is increasing at an average of 0.3403% per day over the past year. Try messing with the calculator using different prices. Know your Competition. It may seem easy to just spin up a miner. But you NEED to take a look at just how serious mining is. The video below offers an inside look at one of China’s largest mines. How to Find the Best Bitcoin Miner. There are some ... GHS/BTC - Gigahash CEX.IO exchange charts. Trade History, Volume, Market Depth... all time Trade History, Volume, Market Depth... all time GHS/BTC - Gigahash CEX.IO exchange charts all time Find out what your expected return is depending on your hash rate and electricity cost. Find out if it's profitable to mine Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, DASH or Monero. Do you think you've got what it takes to join the tough world of cryptocurrency mining? Unlike Bitcoin’s price, the Bitcoin block reward is predictable: every four years (or 210,000 blocks to be exact), the amount of Bitcoins awarded for each block, is cut in half. In 2012, the reward was cut from 50 Bitcoins per block to 25 and is now 12.5 Bitcoins per block. In 2020, this reward will fall to just 6.25 Bitcoins per block, and so forth. With this simple hashrate calculator you can convert Hash to KiloHash to MegaHash to GigaHash to TeraHash to PetaHash to ExaHash to ZettaHash and vice versa. How to use this HashPower calculator? To use this calculator just input your mining hardware hashing power and it will automatically convert to all other units. For example the current network hashrate of Bitcoin is 140 EH/s (Exa hashes ...

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